Author Topic: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....  (Read 995 times)

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Offline sportyworty

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 09:57:46 am »
Randy you are Gold. Scatters a few myths eh
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Offline crossboss

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 09:43:04 pm »
Randy,
Fantastic read! Thanks. Btw, didn't Dove mfg. cast up a bunch of the 'Canadian' heads a fews back?
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Current lifelong project: 1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, Powered by a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase headed, Autolite Inline mounted carb, 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, ala Trans-Am style--Whew!

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 10:02:29 pm »
Yeah, but they had water leaking issues often and valve seats issues. They were never easy to get from them either .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline sportyworty

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2017, 10:08:10 am »
To be clear the head that Dove re cast was the little known C8WE head with casting date 8B16. This was once thought to be the "Canadian" head but was proven incorrect.  Important this thread remains correct with Randy's great contribution to the subject. We are talking about much later 69 cast C80E-N heads that were Tweaked for a select few.
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Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2017, 02:32:18 pm »
I am quite sure they made a C8OE-N Canadian head also a buddy bought two sets 5 years ago .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline crossboss

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2017, 05:56:47 pm »
IF I am also correct, Edelbrock offered for sale an FE cylinder head that mentioned the 'Canadian' type ports/chambers too…
Randy, any truth to this?
<My old C.J. heap  aka  S-B Racing!
Current lifelong project: 1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, Powered by a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase headed, Autolite Inline mounted carb, 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, ala Trans-Am style--Whew!

Offline tbolt2

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2017, 12:54:34 pm »
Recall another player in this story.  Printed out the thread and brought it to the monthly Ford racers luncheon in Livonia MI.  I was kidding Domenic Garofali that we need to "defend his honor" about this.  Domenic read the thread and said either yes or b... s... as he followed down the print.

These are Domenic's comments:  This was 1969.  Buckmaster in Scientific did the cores, which were 427 MR's.  The heads were cast at DIF (Dearborn Iron Foundry - Rouge) on Sunday, when service or specials were normally run.  Machining, except valve seats, were done at Paramount Boring on a tape machine, as experimentals or specials, normally were not run on production equipment.  Said Barrie Poole initially did not get a set.  (discussion with Barrie later he said received a set from Bruce)
Domenic did the valve job at his house in Dearborn Heights.  Initially, he recalled eleven sets, all with ltwt valves, were driven down to Indy in his 67 Galaxie.  Him and a friend of Len Richter, who worked with Len as a test driver at the Safety Labs drove at 90 mph down to Indy, the test driver (who he can't recall his name) got ticketed in Coldwater MI for speeding.  Dom was sleeping in the back seat, where they had a couple glass jugs with kerosene and auto trans fluid.  The cop asked him what was that and Dom said, "CC juice".  The heads were delivered to Paul Harvey Ford dealership where the selected cars were already torn down for cyl head installation.  Jerry's car did not get one of these sets, as the class he was running required heavy valves.  Paul wanted a set, Dom called Emil Loeffler and said to take a set over to Louie Meyer (Indy Engines) to see if they could do the required machining work, they didn't have the correct tools).  Domenic flew commercial first class from Indy back to Detroit, took a cab home, finished another set with heavy valves, then his dad drove him back to the airport.  Said he installed rocker stands and shafts on the pair of cyl heads to use as handles and wrapped them up.  Carried them on the plane back to Indy for installation on Jerry's car.  Dom said this idea and project was totally Bruce's idea, however Dom said Emil knew about it.  In closing, Dom said if you don't believe me, call Bruce or Emil up.  Dom said he might give Bruce a call.

Emil Loeffler came to the October luncheon and sat across from me, Bill Holbrook was sitting next to me, about all we did was talk about everyone's health issues.  Bill passed away shortly after that in late Oct.

Re Domenic, at that time he worked in the X Garage as a mechanic and did cyl heads and other machining at a shop he had at his house.  In addition, Tony Rainero is his cousin.  The post about the Michigan car driven by Poole and running quicker, I recall was Rainero's. 

Next time I see Emil, I'd be interesting in hearing his recollection of this story.

Secret?  I thought everyone knew about this.  LOL

Regards,
Dennis
                 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 01:02:04 pm by tbolt2 »
Regards,
Dennis

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2017, 01:16:10 pm »
Thanks for filling in some of the lost details.It gives more to the story Barrie told me as best he could remember the details .It was good seeing you at Columbus again Dennis . Steve
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline tbolt2

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2017, 03:32:36 pm »
Yes, it was nice to see you there too.  Larry and I did run in Barrie there and spoke with him.  He's such a nice person. 

Wonder how that show will be in five or ten years.   

Years ago, there were two different individuals from SVD that claimed to have given the heads to Barrie. 

Regards,
Dennis 


 
Regards,
Dennis

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2017, 04:21:43 pm »
I have always said if you don't like Barrie there is something wrong with you . :D
He may have gotten a second set for Johns car at another time so that is entirely possible that two different guys said he gave him some.He said a lot of the other FORD racers were not happy at all that they got them .
I bought 5 of the heads years ago Barrie was with me when I got them and sold a pair to the guy that had the Ford Drag Team Torino at the time . Another two went to Wisconsin ;
Hard to say what that show will do in the next few years .It was ok this year sales wise .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline LightWtJet

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2017, 11:36:04 pm »
I had wondered just  what process was used to improve the head flow. It seemed this would take considerable effort. Dominic has now suggested the cores were 427 MR's. Does that sound right?
   I have attended the Ford racers luncheon (many of us are too old to race now) and sorry to hear time is being spent on health issues. I did not know Bill Holbrook had passed away. He was the supervisor of the mechanics in the race group at the X Garage where I worked. Bill was a great guy- very outgoing and had a memory like few have. He and I discussed the car that Tasca had prepared that helped kick start the CJ program. He also mentioned  a drag race on our track that was set up to show Tasca that Ford had cars that would beat his car. Ford did win the race --Ford used a 440 cu.in. engine(a 428 with a 427 crankshaft). Probably told Tasca it was stock. I rode in it and it was fast.
Related to my 428 car- Bill kidded me that the Mustang I bought off the resale lot was in his prototype fleet and should have been scrapped.
Hanging out at the race area in the garage was fun although Nascar type projects were their prime effort.
I worked with Dominic for many years - he was a head specialist and time has not blunted his memory.
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Offline tbolt2

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2017, 01:18:50 pm »
Roger,

Heard they were 427 MR ports, at least the valve pockets, from the Ford Drag Club days years ago.  Platt brought a set for display to one of the meetings.  Guess someone now with an original set will have to measure them to do a comparison, or perhaps one of the super stock racers could elaborate.

Domenic is another guy that needs to write a book, has a million stories in minute detail and virtually all of them are true.  However, not all can be printed.  LOL

Regards,
Dennis
Regards,
Dennis

Offline tbolt2

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2017, 01:25:17 pm »
Steve,

Agree.  Can't think of a nicer person to speak with about Ford drag racing.  A real gentleman and credit to the sport.

Regards,
Dennis
Regards,
Dennis

Offline LightWtJet

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2017, 07:09:10 pm »
I think it is fun to unravel the mystery of these heads.
  What do you think of the noncompetitive position the few factory racers (that got the heads) placed on the little guys?
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Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2017, 07:19:04 pm »
I would bet that they changed classes to one not run by users of those heads .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.