Author Topic: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....  (Read 9790 times)

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Online 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2017, 03:27:03 pm »
I talked to Jerry Harvey today he works at the local dealership to keep himself busy .He really didn't remember much about the Canadian heads at all . He said NHRA used to tech the cars for the US National at Paul Harvey Ford . He also quit driving a race car in 1969 . I don't think the heads were changed there at the dealership especially if tech was being done there .I was always told it was in a barn near the Indy track where the heads ,trans gears in 4 speeds and rear end gears were changed . I have tried to call Barrie the last few days to get more info from him.

On the date codes when I had 5 of those heads not one of them had the same date code as another .Most likely they did that to further make them harder to spot in tech. If they all had the same date if word got out they would look close at anything with that date .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline shelbymann1970

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2017, 03:44:15 pm »
Gary -
Yes, the same Domenic.

Regards,
Dennis
Dennis as an 8 year old kid I remember the Stark Hickey West 68.5 Lt weight 135 car  sitting on a rollback in my subdivision. When I told Frank Lundgren about this about 10 years ago (Believe  he was partnered with Tony on this) he was confused why I would see it often where I lived and their driver must have been visiting his girlfriend. BTW not far-a few blocks from Dave Lyall's house who I think also had a 135 car. Gary


1969 Mach1 R-code red 428SCJ 4 speed V-code
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Offline 161854

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2017, 04:31:52 pm »
    Dennis
      THANK YOU as always! You are  (and were) there and I'm a couple thousand miles away , there is no substitute for that . My associations are from ( now 50) years of trying to establish them after I saw my first experimental parts and wanted to know how to get them.I was a "nobody" but a persistent "pest". Doug Nash (rip) was one of the first to help me ( kind of like giving a screaming kid a piece of candy LOL). In later years as the parts became "obsolete" they became available from many sources. this rekindled the fire in me and I returned to my search for answers. Through the help of many this "outsider" has been given some insight on many of the parts I have owned and in many cases returned them to usefulness. I just last week spent 3 hours with Bob Wendland who is also looking forward to talking with Bruce after  30+ years.  As we continue to lose the retirees  the "magic" of what they created will be lost forever. I think back about a ton of questions  I should have asked Bill Holbrook (rip) . He was SO happy to talk about the things he and the others did back then. To him it was like yesterday. Selfishly , I would like to know as much as I can about what went on and I refuse to give up trying.
      Randy
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
 66 GT350 Hertz SFM 6S 477 white/ blue side stripes 1  of 18
3 magazine covers- Car Craft July '77,  Modified Mustangs Feb '11 , and June '14 Mustang Monthly
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Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2017, 05:17:45 pm »
Was Eddie a cheater or a smart competitor?

With respect to major car races, what racing team came out of the cellar to win a major event? 

What is the driving force behind number 1 finishers, the machinery and pit crew or the skill of the driver?



https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/f33416b9



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Stanky



Offline 161854

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2017, 06:41:17 pm »
  Baseball AIN'T drag racing Ken. Drag racing is FULL of cheaters!!!!!! DSR JFR and THOUSANDS of others. SKILL of the driver is "maybe" 20% of the equation at BEST. Let's keep on the subject.
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
 66 GT350 Hertz SFM 6S 477 white/ blue side stripes 1  of 18
3 magazine covers- Car Craft July '77,  Modified Mustangs Feb '11 , and June '14 Mustang Monthly
'78 F350 Oleynik racecar hauler

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2017, 08:37:33 pm »
Point well taken Randy and I apologize to you for veering off your subject.

By the way your revelation on the Canadian heads and the follow-up posts was my Christmas present and a fascinating read, I always wondered about that!


Online 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2017, 06:13:05 pm »
I talked to Barrie Poole today and asked him some more questions . He confirmed that Bruce Sizemore did deliver him a pair of the heads driving his Boss 302 over to see him.
 He said the second set they had, the ones used on Johns 68 1/2 Mustang came with a engine they bought through Holman Moody .That HM had gotten a bunch of those heads and built most of the Ford Drag Teams engines .
 He still thinks the Canadian heads ,trans gearing and rear-end gears were swapped near the track at Indy out in the country .Another long term racer confirmed they did Indy US Nationals tech at Paul Harvey Ford up at least into the 80's .
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 06:22:13 pm by 428 CJ hardtops »
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline 161854

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2017, 06:36:17 pm »
   Steve ,
       That lines up with what Bruce says along with Harvey not getting a set. Bruce can clear all of this up I'm sure. What will be interesting  is Barrie getting a set from H&M. I'll ask Bruce about that too.
    Randy
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
 66 GT350 Hertz SFM 6S 477 white/ blue side stripes 1  of 18
3 magazine covers- Car Craft July '77,  Modified Mustangs Feb '11 , and June '14 Mustang Monthly
'78 F350 Oleynik racecar hauler

Online 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2017, 07:12:22 pm »
They had his 69 CJ car that got the ones from Bruce Sizemore and Johns 68 1/2 didn't have them. I think they bought the engine hoping to use it and maybe learn from pulling it apart and seeing if there were any tricks they were missing .They were not easy to get .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline x-70option

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2017, 08:14:18 pm »

   I have attended the Ford racers luncheon (many of us are too old to race now) and sorry to hear time is being spent on health issues. I did not know Bill Holbrook had passed away. He was the supervisor of the mechanics in the race group at the X Garage where I worked. Bill was a great guy- very outgoing and had a memory like few have.
 

Roger We were all saddened by Bill's passing....I am sorry I didn't pick up the phone and call you.   I am honored to be included in such company and with friendship.   Dominic called me , I was humbled to be called and I tried to respect his 50+ year friendship having known Bill for only half that time.  Bill treated me like so SO many of you men have treated "kids" (like Randy speaks of his time in the 70's) and it is that honor and duty WE have to keep the their memories and stories alive.

Mark
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Offline tbolt2

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2017, 04:50:38 am »
Met with Domenic Garofoli, and his cousin Tony Rainero on Friday. 

Tony's recollection:

Early 1968 (Ltwt program) Al Turner was the project manager, then another person (Arlen Whittington), then Bruce Sizemore, Tony referred him as the #2 man.  Also, Emil Loeffler, who was the manager.

After 1968 Indy, possibly Oct. 68, there was a meeting on the 2nd floor at Ford Science & Research Bldg. where the flow lab and Alan Buckmaster was located, with some of the racers and Bruce Sizemore to discuss how to get more power at the high end out of the CJ engine.  Discussion led to using MR heads on the CJ.  Buckmaster believed the ports were more important than the larger valves, which led to incorporating the MR port design into the CJ cyl head.
Tony agreed with everything that Domenic stated (see my earlier post), except he thought the cyl heads were cast at experimental, not DIF.  However, he wasn't certain about this.  Tony said Buckmaster did the port design and that Domenic did the valve jobs.  Tony said two sets were released before Indy.  He received one set and another local Dearborn racer, thinks it was Dave Lyall, received the other.  Bruce controlled who received a set, and who didn't.  Tony agreed not to install them until Indy.  The cyl head change out was definitely done at the Paul Harvey Ford dealership, about six days before Indy, not in some barn somewhere.  Emil Loeffler was there at PHF during the cyl head change out.  Likewise, about Dom going back to Dearborn to prep a set for Jerry Harvey's car, that ran heavy valves and dished pistons in a lower class.
Tony mentioned if Loeffler didn't know about this, he must of been blind.  Said all the Clinic cars received a set.  I asked about the Fairlane Torinos, said he wasn't sure.  Ken McClellan received a set.  From what he recalled Glidden, Carl Holbrook, Roush, and Barrie Poole did not.
Said that Ford was interested in was winning the NHRA Manufacturers Cup, a points based award that went to the manufacturer, not a specific racer.  Said that NHRA found out about the cyl heads and wanted to know how to identify them.  After the sets were used up, Tony looked into having additional sets made, NHRA told him not to.  Asked Tony about the term "Canadian Head", his recollection was when NHRA wanted to know where these cyl heads came from, they were told they came from Ford's Canadian operations.

Regards,
Dennis
         
Regards,
Dennis

Offline shelbymann1970

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2017, 05:36:20 am »
Thanks Dennis for the history lesson here. Pretty cool. I went to school with Dave Lyall's lids. I hung around with Darren and graduated with Pam. His son Dave was legendary in losing Garden City cops thru my subdivision with his Mustang II if I recall correctly.  My first WOW factor came when we went into Darren's garage looking for some Chevy valves for some 289 HiPo heads we were have Clyde Dietrick redo. While at that time Dave was already divorced and I think living in Redford. He had a bunch of old race parts in boxes and hanging on the wall in the unfinished garage. I still remember picking up a Boss 429 intake and looking at the ports and thinking WTF? Same with the connecting rods. I won't say about the encounter when I first met Dave Lyall. ;)  But I was introduced to him about 10 years later by Carl Holbrook and never mentioned the first encounter. LOL  Gary


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Online 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2017, 08:50:58 pm »
Sounds like we will finally get a lot of the questions answered on these heads after all these years with the bits and pieces coming together .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline 161854

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2018, 02:11:16 pm »
 I was on the phone with Bruce yesterday on an unrelated subject and at the end I asked how many heads were made/finished. Hi immediate answer was "26 pairs, NO scraps, NO second run". Bruce made NO BONES about his being selective as to who got heads including "certain" Drag Council members that had their feeling hurt by not getting them.  "The idea was to level the playing field and some of the small guys needed a boost". Tony Rainero received one of the sets direct from Bruce. EVERY head was stamped "BS" on the end . Some choose to remove it , but there should still be a witness mark. Maybe Rusty can look at the ones he has and verify that.
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
 66 GT350 Hertz SFM 6S 477 white/ blue side stripes 1  of 18
3 magazine covers- Car Craft July '77,  Modified Mustangs Feb '11 , and June '14 Mustang Monthly
'78 F350 Oleynik racecar hauler

Offline redscj

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Re: After 49 years the "secret" is out on 'Canadian" heads.....
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2018, 04:25:16 pm »
     Might I humbly suggest that as this type of data get slowly unearthed that the relevant posters try to archive it with several others? Not wanting to jab at any wounds but I think several people that have gathered these tidbits are not exactly young. We all can expire at any time. It would be a horrible thing to see this data gathered up from the original tellers to only be lost by the listeners.
Grant
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