Author Topic: Block casting date vs car build date?  (Read 1233 times)

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Offline wsu0702

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Block casting date vs car build date?
« on: March 15, 2017, 11:15:57 pm »
I have been on the lookout for a date code correct 428 block for my 69 Mach 1 as it currently has a "C" block from a '68 full size car with a late '67 block casting date.  I found a seller who has a std bore 428 block with a March 26th 1969 casting date.  My car was built in San Jose on April 24th.  I am thinking that this block's casting date is probably outside of the reasonable range (too late) but wanted to get your opinions on this.

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 11:52:28 pm »
A bit late but you could grind 6 off and it would be a much better match .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 01:32:04 am »
What date codes are on the fender skirts, strut rod supports, hood hinges and core support?

Offline Brian Conway

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 08:23:02 am »
The engine assembly date would be a good indicator.  My motors assembly date is 10 days after the casting date and 23 days before the ' actually built ' date.  Brian
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Offline redscj

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 09:06:30 am »
I have been on the lookout for a date code correct 428 block for my 69 Mach 1 as it currently has a "C" block from a '68 full size car with a late '67 block casting date.  I found a seller who has a std bore 428 block with a March 26th 1969 casting date.  My car was built in San Jose on April 24th.  I am thinking that this block's casting date is probably outside of the reasonable range (too late) but wanted to get your opinions on this.
     I think that while the date may appear too close I think it is within the realm of possible. There is a member on the forum that has an original engine to body car where it is really close. I don't remember the span but I'll say like 2 weeks. Sometimes the stars all line up correctly.
     As for the losing the 6 idea. Be careful, I think that on single digit date codes that there may be a gap between the month & date. So 9C2 might look odd. a 9C_6 might be a better looking option. Honestly, its my opinion that the date is reasonable. Finding a better date might be more trouble than its worth. Research how the dates are spaced before you go that direction. BTW, be careful, you could make a date that no 428 blocks were cast on. Not sure if that matters to you but just be aware of it.
     Member Kerry has a treasure trove of casting dates. A few kind words thrown in his direction might get you an idea of what dates 428 blocks were cast in that timeframe. Then you could decide if you should hold out for a different date. Best of luck.
Grant
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69 Sportsroof Metuchen SCJ 4.30 C6 5/28/69 Acapulco Blue

Offline sportyworty

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 09:40:27 am »
I just saw this on Concours forum and responded so just copying it

Many of the blocks have an assembly date stamp. This date is very often 7-10 days after cast date. I would check that first before purchasing in case it was an exception and assembled 3 weeks later for example making it not likely a good match. If you do not care about the assembly date and just want to know if 4 weeks is enough time then I would say maybe. Typically the San Jose cars have engine dates earlier than other plants due to the logistics and distance from The Dearborn engine plant to San Jose.  Engine inventory at the time your car was assembled would also have bearing on a time frame. Personally I would say it is tight but works. My Talladega was 6 days after assembly date closest I have seen and engine has never been out of the car so it happened. Your car was produced at the height of 428 CJ production when lots of inventory was on hand. Lots of casting batches and things were moving quick based on the production numbers compared to 68 or 70 CJ production. It is entirely possibly but you will need to compliment it with other close dates for a nice date match assembly.
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Offline rockhouse66

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 11:53:22 am »
I agree with Kerry that the date is close but is OK.  The fact that you are looking at a standard bore block is a real plus these days so if you are OK with the date being close then I think this block would be a good purchase for you.

To be sure you followed what I think Kerry was suggesting, the block you are looking at should have a stamped assembly date on it.  If that date precedes your build date then that is more assurance that it is OK to use.  If it does not, I would still not consider that a show stopper, at least not if I were the buyer here.
Jim

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Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 02:31:13 pm »
I'm sure the poster was joking about grinding off a number, that's not who we are.

My date code looked like a 5 because of bleed, so it looked like 4-12-65. I sent a pic to George in Nebraska and he said it's a bleed, but there was still doubt because they started production of 428 blocks right about that time.

I confirmed that the engine is original to the car. I found over 20 date codes from April, the car was birthed in June 2, 69. The latest code was April 26, none from May.  My engine block was cast 50 days before it's birthday.  If the date codes to my car we're March then it's originality would still be in question.  Window glass tends to be 50 to 80 days, battery trays and hood hinges and other ancillary parts are November 68, oddly enough all we're D-3 for Dearborn third shift. 

If I found 30 days on the engine on a car I was inspecting and 50 to 60 on the other parts it might be a flag for a SJ car but not a fatal flag since one has to take in the whole package, like a potential wife.

Yea, she talks to much and goes through money like a drunken sailor but she has other redeeming qualities which make her a keeper.

If a buyer walks from a CJ because the engine was replaced unless he is spending at the 6 figure mark, he's never going to own one.

Offline wsu0702

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 07:20:00 pm »
Thanks guys I appreciate your advice on this.  I asked the seller via e-mail to see if he can find the engine assembly date stamp.  I have usually found them on the head support lugs so I asked him to look there.  Are there other locations where this date stamp might be located?

Offline rockhouse66

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 08:40:41 pm »
Those are the correct locations and I think usually on the driver side of the block, but maybe not always...???

The block in your picture is not the block in question here, correct?
Jim

'69 Grande CJ

Offline wsu0702

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 09:34:19 pm »
Those are the correct locations and I think usually on the driver side of the block, but maybe not always...???

The block in your picture is not the block in question here, correct?

No it's just a pic of a 428 block from my files that I used to illustrate to the seller where to look.  The block in the pic is an early '70's 428 service block.

Offline Mike_B_SVT

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 12:46:10 am »
My assembly date was on the front passenger side behind the smog pump / next to the upper water pump connection.  I've seen a few there, on 428CJ's anyhow.
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Offline Rory McNeil

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2017, 01:45:42 pm »


No it's just a pic of a 428 block from my files that I used to illustrate to the seller where to look.  The block in the pic is an early '70's 428 service block.
[/quote]

WSU, just curious what the casting date on your ribbed 428 block is. I have always wondered when Ford started adding the ribs on the side of the block skirt. I ASSume that it was sometime in 1972 or 73. I also have a 428 service block with the ribs, mine has a 1973 casting date. In fact, this was a 428 Cobra Jet service short block, it has a 1UB crank, C7AE-B 13/32" rod bolts, and the pistons have "428 Super" cast around the wrist pin bosses. When I pulled it apart, the rod and main bearings were 1973 dated DABs.
My drag car has a 1971 dated 427 side oiler, hyd. lifter block, and that block does NOT have any ribs on the skirts.
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Offline wsu0702

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2017, 08:20:54 pm »


No it's just a pic of a 428 block from my files that I used to illustrate to the seller where to look.  The block in the pic is an early '70's 428 service block.
[/quote]
WSU, just curious what the casting date on your ribbed 428 block is. I have always wondered when Ford started adding the ribs on the side of the block skirt. I ASSume that it was sometime in 1972 or 73. I also have a 428 service block with the ribs, mine has a 1973 casting date. In fact, this was a 428 Cobra Jet service short block, it has a 1UB crank, C7AE-B 13/32" rod bolts, and the pistons have "428 Super" cast around the wrist pin bosses. When I pulled it apart, the rod and main bearings were 1973 dated DABs.
My drag car has a 1971 dated 427 side oiler, hyd. lifter block, and that block does NOT have any ribs on the skirts.
[/quote]

It's actually not a pic of one of mine it's a pic that I copied from the 'net years ago and it was one of the best pics in my files that showed the block lugs where the assembly date codes are stamped.  The reason I am pretty sure it's a 428 is the original .jpeg name indicated it was a 428 service block and the upper water jacket holes in the deck look to be the taller 428 style.  So if it's a 428 with external ribs it has to be a service block since 428 production for the car assembly plants ended in mid-'70 and I am certain that the ribs came later.

As far as when the DIF blocks started being cast with the external ribs I have always thought it was sometime in 1971 as I have had and seen some ribbed DIF blocks with 1971 casting dates.  I don't remember the exact dates but IIRC they were all cast sometime in the last half of 1971.  What is the casting date on your 71 SO block?

I have had 3 428 service blocks that were cast in early '74.  I still have one of those being cleaned up at the machine shop currently (it was VERY rusty) and it has the latest casting date (4D9) that I have seen on a DIF FE block.  What is interesting about these '74 428 service blocks is that they all lacked the rear bulkhead "C" scratch but they are real 428's and not bored out 391's. 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 08:40:59 pm by wsu0702 »

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: Block casting date vs car build date?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2017, 12:40:33 am »
I thought that 428 service blocks we're cast as 391's but bored out by the factory to 428 size since 428 engines we're no longer in production, I think, by the start of the 72 model year.

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