Author Topic: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs  (Read 2395 times)

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Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2016, 09:32:25 pm »
The technical rules are unenforceable as a practical matter.  A stock Mustang that does 110 MPH trap time has been tweaked a bit under the hood. However the rules say, unless I misread it, that 1.5 compression ratio over stock is allowed which is 12 to 1, hardly stock. 

A 3600 pound car that does 110 trap speed with stock tires has to pushing 600 horsepower, but that's a guess on my part.

If I was running the show any car that does over 100 MPH trap would automatically be in the reverse lottery. The guys in this group would draw straws after the race and the winner, which is the loser, would consent to a engine teardown on the spot. What's interesting to me is how a cheater would be viewed by his fellow racers. I don't think he would lose any friends or respect, in fact he may gain respect once his cheating secrets are exposed. There could be a fine of a 1000 dollars and he would get a trophy called the "Smokey" award.

But to catch a racer using nitro or other home brew fuel would be hard to do.   

Takes no where near 600 hp to run that fast .My car is the one that ran 110 mph and I doubt it made much over 400 .My old 68 1/2 was the first 12 second pure stocker . With a NOS cam ,stock pistons ,stock heads ,a 391 gear and a Flowmaster transverse muffler it went a best of 13.31 . The next year we freshened it up decked the block ,milled the heads to minimum cc's changed to a stock lift cheater cam that was from the 60's ,a 3 angle valve job ,true dual exhaust and a different convertor it went 12.74 at 106 .
Now the blue 69 car had the very same cam a fresh short block ,nice minimum cc heads ,and a 4.11 gear and went a 12.51 at the pure stock race (12.42 at the local track).Learning the tires and how best to use them is the reason this car was faster than the old 68 1/2 .
Now todays 68 1/2 has flat top pistons ,as thin a head gasket as we could run (might be around 11.4 or close to that) ,a much more modern stock lift cam that still idles nicely, decked block, minimum cc heads with a nice valve job ,a tight not loose convertor (loose wouldn't help and slips more) 4.11 gear, shift kit, carb is jetted a bit less than factory jetting . It made 450 hp at 5800 rpm Kept blowing the dyno pipes off the manifolds every time it hit 5800 so couldn't try a higher rpm even though it was still making another 4 hp per every 100 rpm at that point. It maybe has 480 hp. I have years of experience driving these cars on the polyglas G-70-14 tires . I take new tires and have half the tread shaved off them before ever using them (Far cheaper than engine wear to do it ). I know what air pressure to use what to do for springs ,shocks and clamping the front half of the leaf springs . A very nice X pipe dual exhaust system to breath.Its a proper combination of parts that work well together and some driving technique .

I wish they would make the compression rule just a few points over stock .Some trick fuels are very noticeable smell wise .Once the genie is out of the bottle things will never be what most people would call pure.The more pure they would make the cars the more likely a well prepped CJ would shine .I will never be the quickest at the Pure Stock race but the Ford guys wont have to hold their heads down .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline redscj

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2016, 03:36:36 pm »
The technical rules are unenforceable as a practical matter.  A stock Mustang that does 110 MPH trap time has been tweaked a bit under the hood. However the rules say, unless I misread it, that 1.5 compression ratio over stock is allowed which is 12 to 1, hardly stock. 

A 3600 pound car that does 110 trap speed with stock tires has to pushing 600 horsepower, but that's a guess on my part.

If I was running the show any car that does over 100 MPH trap would automatically be in the reverse lottery. The guys in this group would draw straws after the race and the winner, which is the loser, would consent to a engine teardown on the spot. What's interesting to me is how a cheater would be viewed by his fellow racers. I don't think he would lose any friends or respect, in fact he may gain respect once his cheating secrets are exposed. There could be a fine of a 1000 dollars and he would get a trophy called the "Smokey" award.

But to catch a racer using nitro or other home brew fuel would be hard to do.   

Takes no where near 600 hp to run that fast .My car is the one that ran 110 mph and I doubt it made much over 400 .My old 68 1/2 was the first 12 second pure stocker . With a NOS cam ,stock pistons ,stock heads ,a 391 gear and a Flowmaster transverse muffler it went a best of 13.31 . The next year we freshened it up decked the block ,milled the heads to minimum cc's changed to a stock lift cheater cam that was from the 60's ,a 3 angle valve job ,true dual exhaust and a different convertor it went 12.74 at 106 .
Now the blue 69 car had the very same cam a fresh short block ,nice minimum cc heads ,and a 4.11 gear and went a 12.51 at the pure stock race (12.42 at the local track).Learning the tires and how best to use them is the reason this car was faster than the old 68 1/2 .
Now todays 68 1/2 has flat top pistons ,as thin a head gasket as we could run (might be around 11.4 or close to that) ,a much more modern stock lift cam that still idles nicely, decked block, minimum cc heads with a nice valve job ,a tight not loose convertor (loose wouldn't help and slips more) 4.11 gear, shift kit, carb is jetted a bit less than factory jetting . It made 450 hp at 5800 rpm Kept blowing the dyno pipes off the manifolds every time it hit 5800 so couldn't try a higher rpm even though it was still making another 4 hp per every 100 rpm at that point. It maybe has 480 hp. I have years of experience driving these cars on the polyglas G-70-14 tires . I take new tires and have half the tread shaved off them before ever using them (Far cheaper than engine wear to do it ). I know what air pressure to use what to do for springs ,shocks and clamping the front half of the leaf springs . A very nice X pipe dual exhaust system to breath.Its a proper combination of parts that work well together and some driving technique .

I wish they would make the compression rule just a few points over stock .Some trick fuels are very noticeable smell wise .Once the genie is out of the bottle things will never be what most people would call pure.The more pure they would make the cars the more likely a well prepped CJ would shine .I will never be the quickest at the Pure Stock race but the Ford guys wont have to hold their heads down .
     I think that you're really selling your setup short. I believe beyond all doubt that if you could find a 60's nitro cammer to drop into your car as it sits. There is no doubt that you could easily break into the 9's.
     Horse power is only one piece of the puzzle. Getting all of the bits & pieces working together is the trick. Congrats on your et's. Hold your head up high.
Grant
69 Mach 1 Dearborn SCJ 4.30 4spd 6/17/69 Candy Apple Red
69 Sportsroof Metuchen SCJ 4.30 C6 5/28/69 Acapulco Blue

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2016, 08:19:10 pm »
Thanks for the compliment ,on the AFX style engine please don't put expensive but fun ideas in my head . ;D I agree setup is quite important but not difficult with fairly basic parts .Tuning is also important .The blue 69 car that was the quickest was taken to the chassis dyno thinking I had it close to dialed in and left there with another 27 hp and 25 lbs of torque. Want to get the 68 1/2 to the track with the current list of changes then after a chassis dyno tune and back to the track with what should be a well dialed in car .(fewer changes at one time to see what did help and then more hp )
 What some people don't know is the CJ heads combustion chamber being somewhat inefficient needs more timing than most are used to running (many run 32-34 like a small block).With good fuel we normally run close to 40 degrees total makes a lot more power than the lower number(probably not a good idea on pump gas) .
I and many others would like to see more Ford guys show up at the races with their CJ cars and we will help anyone who needs it with a starting setup .We can all hold our heads up high , I want Ford and the CJ to be more than an also ran .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline notabiker

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 06:35:51 pm »
My 69 4 speed CJ in 1969 with 3.91 gears Never had a full pass slower than 13.88 in its life. And that 13.88 was spinning the tires pretty good on my first time out with 300 miles on the car.
1969 ram air 428 mach 1
1966 GT 350
1968 chevelle ss 396 375 HP
1988 mustang GT
1991 saleen W 5 lb vortec supercharger
2002 Lightning PU
82  hatch back drag stang, 10.5 tire heads up small block class ,no power adder 377 windsor
1987 427 Cobra kit car

Offline 70cj428

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 10:02:56 am »

Hate to post this but ......

I recently rented a new (2017) mustang convertible at the fly in at Oshkosh several weeks ago. I was a base model ecoboost 4 cylinder automatic, it's only options were the Nav, a teeny little wing on the decklid, and a spare tire and wheel ( If you don't pay 240 or so extra, you get a can of fix a flat in the trunk). Aside from being technically over the top (23 switches are mounted to the steering wheel alone), the car runs and drives pretty amazing. It has a GPS based performance monitor selectable for the center of the panel (along with a 2 axis G meter if you want....) and bone stock with 4K miles on it , in track mode with premium fuel, I had the car running consistant 14.50's on numerous clandestine attempts. Talking with another guy at the show that has coupe, his has run 13.98 at the track, by just removing the spare and running premium fuel (it knows.....)

You have 4 modes (stock, sport, track, and mud and snow), and can change the steering effort from the dash. all on the base model....

Gotta get my hands on a new GT ....

I'm still a HUGE fan of the old muscle cars, but anyone who says that new cars can't compare needs to drive a new Mustang.

JMHO, John

Offline notabiker

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2017, 12:11:08 am »
There's some interesting stuff buried in there.

First, for anyone thinking that a 428CJ/4 speed/4.30 car had to be quicker than 14.57, that really wasn't the case.  The 4.30 sticks are really hard to launch on street tires, and they run out of revs a few hundred feet before the finish.  You need to really stretch them out and do everything perfectly to get one solidly in the 13s.  C6s with 4.30s are a little more forgiving.  Most all pure stock CJ Mustangs I saw run were in the mid to low 14s.  When you saw one running mid to high 13s, or better, you could be nearly certain that it was a 3.91 automatic car, and that the driver had considerable experience.

Second, they might be a bit portly, but the '71s were not the slugs they are sometimes portrayed as.  Any difference between a 428CJ Mustang and a 429CJ Mustang in pure stock trim was more likely to be the setup and driver than the engine itself.  I'd pick a 429SCJ/C6/4.11 Mustang to beat a B9 in pure stock trim.

Back in the day two local cobre jet owners installed 427 silid lifter cams and sidwinder intake manifolds. Both were slower than my stock CJ.The secret with the CJ was it made tons of torque and reved quickly from 1,500 to 5,000 rpm. In a 3,400 lb mustang with 3.91 gears it was deadly.I gut pretty good at ooking up pollyglass GT stock tires.

Third, if you put a tremendous amount of gear in them (notice the 4.86s), a Boss 302, like a Z28, will fly.  Unfortunately, unlike the Z28, the Boss 302 tended to become a Ford grenade if you tried that, and ended up as shrapnel.  I don't doubt you can build a B2 to take it, but as delivered they had some issues.  I knew a number of guys who ran 4.56s and 4.88s in Z28s without a problem though.

Fourth, this is some fantastic advice: "Wayne Nelson will tell you that there’s no secret to making a 428 Cobra Jet run. Keep it stock, and make sure everything—carb, ignition advance, tire pressure—is set up right and tuned for your track conditions and prevailing weather, then let the engine do its thing."  That was exactly my experience.  I saw a lot of guys try modifying them, and go slower with every change.

Lastly, congratulations 428 CJ hardtops!!!  That is absolutely flying in pure stock trim (although the definition of pure stock has gotten a bit more liberal over the years).
1969 ram air 428 mach 1
1966 GT 350
1968 chevelle ss 396 375 HP
1988 mustang GT
1991 saleen W 5 lb vortec supercharger
2002 Lightning PU
82  hatch back drag stang, 10.5 tire heads up small block class ,no power adder 377 windsor
1987 427 Cobra kit car

Offline notabiker

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2017, 12:25:27 pm »
pure stock today is not the same as pure stock back when these cars were new. Impossible on rebuild over the years to not improve performance.I like the concept of today's pure stock racing  but it has no resemblance to what we had then. Some of these times above are worse than what these cars could do back in the day,some better.
1969 ram air 428 mach 1
1966 GT 350
1968 chevelle ss 396 375 HP
1988 mustang GT
1991 saleen W 5 lb vortec supercharger
2002 Lightning PU
82  hatch back drag stang, 10.5 tire heads up small block class ,no power adder 377 windsor
1987 427 Cobra kit car

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2017, 11:48:11 pm »
Hopefully Monday or Tuesday the new improved engine will be fired up and cam broke in . Newer better (more compression heads,new cam old one was showing a lot of wear). Caught a potential problem one of the oil restrictors was far to small and it would have caused problems on the rockers . No other changes but the cam shows noticeable wear and hopefully a improvement will come from that alone .Hope to test Wednesday ,the Pure Stock Drags are sept 15-16 and the NMCA race is the week after .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Online rockhouse66

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 08:03:09 am »
Best of luck with the new setup Steve.  Should be a difference you can feel/measure.  Looking forward to the results.
Jim

'69 Grande CJ

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2017, 06:42:48 am »
I did 8 or so 68 to 100 runs in forth gear and video taped the speedodometer.

Next I viewed the runs in front of my computer and they looked identical until I used a stop watch and was surprised that the best time was right at 4 seconds and the worst was over 5.

The sound of the engine was the same but I believe fuel aeration was the culprit which can be mitigated by sealing the gas tank 3/5th full with metal tape and letting pressure build.  Carburetors need volume and I'm guessing that the fuel from the tank to the pump inlet under slight pressure reduced turbulence in the pump which provides a smoother delivery with more volume since both floats are dropped. 

Have you guys had runs that we're faster that they should have been with no mechanical explanation?

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2017, 11:34:52 pm »
The new improved engine is running and driving .Just got to get some leaks taken care of and maybe test a bit at the track on Wednesday ,The Pure Stock Drags are this weekend so I hope to lower my quickest Ford record again .Its 12.31 now time will tell.
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline mwilson7

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2017, 09:26:31 am »
I'll be coming as a spectator this year to see what it's all about. 

I hope to see you there!
Mark
70 Mach 1 Q Code 4 Sp
Numerous other Fords

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2017, 11:11:40 pm »
Had a stuck exhaust valve on #2 cylinder somehow .Went and picked up replacement valve today .Still at the track till tomorrow afternoon .Stop by and say hi ,I will be close to the car most of the day .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline mwilson7

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2017, 08:08:33 pm »
I arrived around 2:00 but wasn't able to find you.  Did watch some great racing though!  428cj equipped cougar eliminator running mid 12's definitely caught my eye and the Torino Cobras had a good showing.  I may have to bring one of my cars out next year and give it a go.
Mark
70 Mach 1 Q Code 4 Sp
Numerous other Fords

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2017, 09:48:31 pm »
Bring a car and have fun .I will help you with any info and advice you need .I didn't stick around much today .Hard to watch instead of race and have a 5 hour drive home afterwards .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.