Author Topic: IS this a real CJ hood?  (Read 8155 times)

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Offline americancarpartner

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IS this a real CJ hood?
« on: July 02, 2016, 04:08:05 am »
Hey guy's. i am new here and just bought a 1970 CJ and a boss302  but now i was wondering if the hood on the CJ is the correct one? because i can only find picture's of the cobra jet ram air with a shaker hood. see picture's

Offline CHOPPERS

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2016, 04:36:55 am »
Sorry, Your car has the 'R' code designation in the VIN, that is the incorrect hood for that particular car. That car should have the shaker hood and shaker air cleaner assy.
Original and correct shakers are hard to come by, the 428 Cobra Jet has a unique one, check the component ID section for all the particulars. Hoods are reproduced with Ford Tooling, But a correct and original are hard to come by also.
Steve-o

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Offline redscj

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2016, 09:12:36 am »
Sorry, Your car has the 'R' code designation in the VIN, that is the incorrect hood for that particular car. That car should have the shaker hood and shaker air cleaner assy.
Original and correct shakers are hard to come by, the 428 Cobra Jet has a unique one, check the component ID section for all the particulars. Hoods are reproduced with Ford Tooling, But a correct and original are hard to come by also.
     It might be a Ford hood but it is at the very least the wrong Ford hood for your car. I'm guessing a front end wreck in it's earlier life that the owner didn't have "full coverage insurance". The flat hood would of been easier to find used. As I recall there wasn't a shaker replacement hood so $$ was saved by not having to cut the shaker hole.
Grant
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69 Sportsroof Metuchen SCJ 4.30 C6 5/28/69 Acapulco Blue

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2016, 09:26:48 am »
The guys are right, 99.9999% of the time.

 However, there are rare oddities that must be considered before anything is changed. According to the Marti report website, Ford did make substitutions and deletions especially at the end of a model year or run.  First get a Marti report, then check the date codes on the hood and hinges and core support and aprons and engine and engine parts and everywhere else that you can find them on the car.  Take pictures of the hood and the underside as well and do some research and look for the build sheet under the seats.

If the hood and shaker assembly is missing, then prove it.

Offline sportyworty

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2016, 10:42:50 am »
The guys are right, 99.9999% of the time.

 However, there are rare oddities that must be considered before anything is changed. According to the Marti report website, Ford did make substitutions and deletions especially at the end of a model year or run.  First get a Marti report, then check the date codes on the hood and hinges and core support and aprons and engine and engine parts and everywhere else that you can find them on the car.  Take pictures of the hood and the underside as well and do some research and look for the build sheet under the seats.

If the hood and shaker assembly is missing, then prove it.

You are the only person here that would suspect this could be original and a substitution due to shortage. Everything is not a mystery with regards to 68-70 428 CJ production. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof not the other way around. Some things do not need to debated and the fact the hood has been replaced and Ram Air has been removed on this R code car is one of them. Come join the 99.9% we have new things to figure together.
The chances the Ram was stolen at some point in this used cars life is far greater than a substitution or shortage but perhaps not as mysterious. I am not disagreeing with Kevin this is just not one of the cases. We have known ones

Welcome americancarpartner nice original California driven car you have and betting it is a solid piece. If the plate is original the car has been in California since later 1970 or 1971 at the latest. Sometimes a Metuchen car like yours will be sold into the western region and have a DSO from California. More common to just have someone move and take a car with them though. Based on this, likely the hood was replaced many years ago and painted with the typical cheap synthetic paint to match which fades faster than the original Enamel. I like the extra Black triangle on the scoop. Someone forgot the bumper brackets to fender at the time as well. We can help with a template if you want to cut the hood and the Shaker can be purchased used or partially with the new nice repro parts being stamped. Have a look for a date stamp on the underside of the hood if that is important to you and a restoration. Your car was likely built near the end of September 1969 and sheet metal dates are not year specific just month then day. Regardless if original or not you want a date match like year/month with a 5 6 7 for month example 6 27 D2   June 27 Dearborn plant 2nd shift.
Lots of members here that are well versed on the 70 cars so ask away.
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Offline redscj

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2016, 11:07:07 am »
     It's really hard to imagine this is original. Substituting parts on an option that the buy paid good money for is too far fetched for me.
Grant
69 Mach 1 Dearborn SCJ 4.30 4spd 6/17/69 Candy Apple Red
69 Sportsroof Metuchen SCJ 4.30 C6 5/28/69 Acapulco Blue

Offline Brian Conway

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2016, 11:07:32 am »
http://www.anghelrestorations.com/
     Yes, welcome and congratulations on two very nice cars.  The date stamps on my hood are 9  6  W3 and the MARTI production date is Sept. 19, 1968.  So... about 2 weeks difference.  Lots of great ' factoids ' on the site posted and compiled by forum member Marcus Anghel.  As Kerry has mentioned plenty of information here as well.  Brian
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 11:15:51 am by Brian Conway »
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Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2016, 11:19:39 am »
As I've said before, there is no crime in "maybe".  It's so obvious the hood is not original based on common knowledge that it's worth checking out, simple enough.

On the Marti.com website, there is a story that Kevin tells of scuffing and repainting a fender as an example of a cost saving move that the factory did if they we're short of parts at the end of a run.

The left fender on my late 68 fastback has a patch of paint missing revealing lime green paint.  I always thought that it was a junkyard fender. I took another look at it. The lime green gauges out at 3 mils so it's likely the fender was repainted by Ford before the car was delivered to the selling dealer.

 The hood on this 70 has a date code and the car has a birthdate, that's a good place to start. These cars have over a hundred date codes and clues. Each car has a story to tell and once all the known facts are put together there is a surprise here and there.   

Offline 70 BOSS 302

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2016, 11:50:09 am »
Maybe it's the correct R code hood but somewhere along the way the shaker was sold and a Q code scoop was installed over the shaker hole.
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Offline sportyworty

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2016, 11:54:48 am »
That would be great news !!
I blew up the pic but just can't tell if there is a hole or not.
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Offline RoyceP

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2016, 12:06:08 pm »
The hood appears to be painted a different color than the rest of the car. No way that scoop is correct for any R code Mustang. The time to buy the correct ram air setup is now. The price of that stuff goes up, never down.
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Offline redscj

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2016, 12:21:26 pm »
     The easiest answer is generally the correct answer. As for Ford repainting panels on the line, I'm skeptical about that. My wife worked at a Mercury dealership from the mid 80's on. The dealers fixed shipping dings. Makes sense to me. Why staff a crew for the occasional oops. Pass that work down to the dealers under warranty work.
Grant
69 Mach 1 Dearborn SCJ 4.30 4spd 6/17/69 Candy Apple Red
69 Sportsroof Metuchen SCJ 4.30 C6 5/28/69 Acapulco Blue

Offline americancarpartner

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2016, 12:28:19 pm »
hey guy's thx for all of the info, i have the marti report on both cars and it was build on 09/23/69 i will post some pict of it here.
if the hood is the wrong one i have found a correct one from scott drake and the shaker parts are all availeble with Dynacorn.
1970 Ford Mustang Mach 1
428 Super Cobra jet/Drag Pack in rare color code 6 Bright Metallic Blue. This car has spent the majority of it’s life in California on Lake Havasu Arizona. It is sun baked but it is not rusty it is incredibly dry and is an exceptional body to start a restoration on. Incredibly rare Super Cobra Jet Mach 1 with these options, Marti Report is scanned and posted here. The engine does not turn over we are selling in AS IS found condition Engine code C6ME-a, Engine Date Code 6L8, Head Code C7AE-A. It is tough to find a car this solid to start with and this one is definitely worth the time and effort to restore.


Offline redscj

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2016, 01:04:28 pm »
     Bummer, you have the wrong motor also.
6L8 is November 8 1966. No CJ blocks made that early.
C7AE isn't the casting number for CJ heads.


     At least one of your Marti reports is for a Boss 302. You need to contact Marti to get the correct report. But first, don't delay on this one minute. Verify your title to the VIN on the car. Someone should chime in on where the official VIN is on the cars in 1970. Please do this fast. This isn't looking very good at the moment.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 01:10:54 pm by redscj »
Grant
69 Mach 1 Dearborn SCJ 4.30 4spd 6/17/69 Candy Apple Red
69 Sportsroof Metuchen SCJ 4.30 C6 5/28/69 Acapulco Blue

Offline americancarpartner

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2016, 01:38:49 pm »
hey  yes, one car is the cobra jet and the other one is a boss 302 the report's are correct

Offline americancarpartner

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2016, 01:46:24 pm »
as far as the engine go's


C6ME-A
 
'66 - '70/ 428 c.i.d.
 
428-4V, Police Interceptor, May Or May Not Be Drilled For Hydraulic Lifters… Look For Oil Galleries
 
and the heads

C7AE-A is a universal FE head, used on anything that era.

 Its a 390 head, 428 head, and even, get this, 67 Shelby GT-500 dual quad head.



Offline sportyworty

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2016, 02:13:39 pm »
The C6ME is "universal" as well.
That casting plate was used on 352, 360 and 390 as well at that time. The 6L date tells us it was cast 4 months into 1967 vehicle production. A solid lifter P code Police block would be dated to work in a previous years car production, 1966
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Offline americancarpartner

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2016, 02:45:55 pm »
aha, so i will need a correct engine than.

Offline Mike_B_SVT

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2016, 03:28:38 pm »
aha, so i will need a correct engine than.

Not if you are selling it "as-is / as found".

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Offline redscj

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2016, 03:49:24 pm »
hey  yes, one car is the cobra jet and the other one is a boss 302 the report's are correct
     Sorry, I missed the 2 car part.
Grant
69 Mach 1 Dearborn SCJ 4.30 4spd 6/17/69 Candy Apple Red
69 Sportsroof Metuchen SCJ 4.30 C6 5/28/69 Acapulco Blue

Offline americancarpartner

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2016, 05:05:10 pm »
i want to sell one of the 2 and restore the other one but can't make up my mind what one to restore my selve. the CJ are build less of than the boss302
 

Offline Mike_B_SVT

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2016, 06:51:26 pm »
i want to sell one of the 2 and restore the other one but can't make up my mind what one to restore my selve. the CJ are build less of than the boss302

That's makes correct dated parts hard to find :-/

Is the Boss numbers matching?  If so, I would restore that one.  Assuming the bodies have roughly equal needs.  70 Boss parts will cost comparably with the SCJ parts, but more common so easier to find.
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Offline CHOPPERS

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2016, 08:30:40 pm »
i want to sell one of the 2 and restore the other one but can't make up my mind what one to restore my selve. the CJ are build less of than the boss302
My vote, and probably most of us, would be to restore the Cobra Jet. Much more desirable than the Boss, Probably will cost a bit more, since you have the Super Cobra Jet, but in the end, you will have a very desirable, more valuable, and highly sought after car.
 Too bad it wasn't back in the states, it even came from Chicago, my home town.
Steve-o

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Offline sportyworty

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2016, 09:54:51 pm »
The Boss is an open rear 3.50 and no shaker but good color
The SCJ is going to have way more torque
Two completely different cars by the seat of the pants.
If you decide on the Cobra Jet I can help you locate the parts. I ship to Europe frequently through an exporter in Texas that covers Europe.
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Offline redscj

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2016, 10:06:56 pm »
     Man I can feel the negative vibes already. Restore the SCJ. Now hear me out on my logic. The cars appear to both be in Europe. So what will the useage be? Neither will likely see any serious judging. So the two cars will look alike to most people that will see them. Hey both are Mustang fastbacks. There isn't many 7 liter engines driving around there. When I tell my Dutch cousins that my Mustangs have engines that large. I can see the back of their eye sockets.
     Since the cars won't likely be judged the op can build a look a like SCJ engine at a discount. Aftermarket rods & bolts, a 1U crank, intake & dizzy. Even the hatchet is reproduced. Balancing it all might take some work. Go for the WOW factor of the 7 liters. I honestly don't think you'll be disappointed. Best of luck to you.
Grant
69 Mach 1 Dearborn SCJ 4.30 4spd 6/17/69 Candy Apple Red
69 Sportsroof Metuchen SCJ 4.30 C6 5/28/69 Acapulco Blue

Offline americancarpartner

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2016, 02:47:56 am »
i bought the 2 in Texas about 5 weeks ago. the CJ has a better body than the boss, the boss needs new floor pans the CJ is rock solid as i can see on the picture's. The cars are still on it's way over here they will arrive in Rotterdam on Wednesday. I am an importer of American car parts to Europe as well i have a 20 ft container each 6-8 weeks and am wharehouse dealer from Dynacorn, TMI,.... but that's not way i am here.  first i wanted to restore the boss but after doing some interweb searching i noticed that the CJ are less of. I want to restore it back to original, to me this is advertisement and it keep's the best value. i already have a 70 charger500 with 440 so i am into the 7 Liters hahaha.

Offline americancarpartner

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2016, 02:49:30 am »
The Boss is an open rear 3.50 and no shaker but good color
The SCJ is going to have way more torque
Two completely different cars by the seat of the pants.
If you decide on the Cobra Jet I can help you locate the parts. I ship to Europe frequently through an exporter in Texas that covers Europe.

hey man, i ship from Fort Lauderdale and it would be gr8 if we could do some business in the future on the CJ parts i will need.

Offline sportyworty

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2016, 12:29:21 pm »
Just reach out when you get a game plan together. I operate a small business specializing in 428 but also a true hobby collector as well so it is 24/7. Can get you dialed in correct. There are references in the vendor and supplier recommendations section of this forum. If you do not buy that is ok too and will get you answers regardless.

Kerry


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Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2016, 01:11:24 pm »
I was considering buying a boss 302 for a flip to finance my hobby until one of the forum members here educated me. This guy is a former big 3 financial analyst and he said that the boss 302 in number 3 condition mostly original, is a 45K car.  A boss 302 in number 1 condition brings 75K on a good day.  I have found his opinion to be accurate with respect to values.

The boss 302 had a problem engine from the start, and the interiors are standard.  Many of the parts, including the original carburetor, are gone, in fact Ford offered a replacement carburetor which was considered an upgrade.  The general consensus is that the engine needed more cubes and the RPM that it was capable of exceeded the cam in block design with regard to valve float, not to mention the piston speed was excessive.

Side by side in the same condition a Cobra Jet is worth much more, perhaps 20 to 30 percent, partly due to the attractive colors our cars came with as opposed to the limited numbers of colors available to the boss 302.  The primary advantage a CJ has over a boss 302 is the big block which buyers want, myself included. 

Offline CHOPPERS

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2016, 10:20:31 pm »
I highly recommend Sportyworty if you decide to restore the Cobra Jet. He has the knowledge.
BTW, He knows Bosses also, and pretty much anything else regarding Musclecars. He is a great resource.
Steve-o

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Offline 70 BOSS 302

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2016, 11:00:03 am »
I also, highly recommend getting your BOSS 302 advice and information from Sporty and folks on the BOSS forum, not the Cobra Jet forum....

I am fortunate to have a BOSS and CJ but if I could only have one, make mine a BOSS.  I would think a car that handles like a slot car would be more desirable in Europe with all those curvy roads you have.
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Offline specialCJ

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2016, 04:00:25 pm »
Maybe it's the correct R code hood but somewhere along the way the shaker was sold and a Q code scoop was installed over the shaker hole.

+1, my car had that done to it in the early 70's. When I got it there was a regular scoop bolted over the shaker hole on the original hood. Stolen shaker is a very real possibility given no hood locks on these cars over the years.
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Offline geraldt52

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2016, 07:40:27 pm »
i want to sell one of the 2 and restore the other one but can't make up my mind what one to restore my selve. the CJ are build less of than the boss302

You didn't tell us how complete the Boss car is, in terms of the original engine/trans/rear.

The CJ car is desirable, and reasonably rare, but unfortunately you've already detailed a lot of the original parts that are missing.  When you inspect the trans and rear you may find that there's even more missing, and what you may end up with is a rolling shell...assuming your goal is a numbers-matching restoration.  It's a plus that it's real solid, but don't underestimate how much money there is in missing parts.

Having a "rare" car is a mixed blessing when it comes to buying the parts to complete it.  A numbers matching restoration on a SCJ missing everything would be a difficult task here in the States, and doubly difficult and expensive to do overseas.

In your situation, barring the Boss being a complete rust-bucket, I would make the decision based on which car comes with the most of it's original parts.

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2016, 10:05:07 pm »
If a 68.5 CJ has the starter delay, is it worth 10K more on the market than another car that doesn't have it?  I don't understand why it's so valuable.

Here is a thread from 9-2008 regarding the starter delay, 5K for an original starter delay was mentioned. I heard that an original starter delay goes for 10K these days.

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/584420-1968-5-r-code-value.html
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 10:17:44 pm by 69cobrajetrugae2 »

Offline sportyworty

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2016, 11:08:40 pm »
Why are you talking about starter delays and 68.5 on this thread Ken?
There has been an NOS starter delay on EBay for 2500 for a year. They are perfectly reproduced and I have sold a dozen originals between 900-1200. You are way off the mark here. Go read your linked thread again. The reference of 5K was for the original hood and scoop. It was our member Bobs hood off his bad ass fast White 68.5. He sold it on EBay. You hear a lot of things then run them by us 10K sheesh  ::)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 11:16:57 pm by sportyworty »
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Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: IS this a real CJ hood?
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2016, 02:34:24 am »
Thanks Kerry, now it makes more sense.