Author Topic: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs  (Read 8806 times)

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Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« on: March 13, 2016, 03:13:13 pm »
Some CJ cars at the top of the list .There is a CJ 70 Cougar that was not shown that has run 12.70's owned by the guy with the Boss 351 .

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/1603-10-fastest-production-mustangs/
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline geraldt52

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2016, 07:59:27 pm »
There's some interesting stuff buried in there.

First, for anyone thinking that a 428CJ/4 speed/4.30 car had to be quicker than 14.57, that really wasn't the case.  The 4.30 sticks are really hard to launch on street tires, and they run out of revs a few hundred feet before the finish.  You need to really stretch them out and do everything perfectly to get one solidly in the 13s.  C6s with 4.30s are a little more forgiving.  Most all pure stock CJ Mustangs I saw run were in the mid to low 14s.  When you saw one running mid to high 13s, or better, you could be nearly certain that it was a 3.91 automatic car, and that the driver had considerable experience.

Second, they might be a bit portly, but the '71s were not the slugs they are sometimes portrayed as.  Any difference between a 428CJ Mustang and a 429CJ Mustang in pure stock trim was more likely to be the setup and driver than the engine itself.  I'd pick a 429SCJ/C6/4.11 Mustang to beat a B9 in pure stock trim.

Third, if you put a tremendous amount of gear in them (notice the 4.86s), a Boss 302, like a Z28, will fly.  Unfortunately, unlike the Z28, the Boss 302 tended to become a Ford grenade if you tried that, and ended up as shrapnel.  I don't doubt you can build a B2 to take it, but as delivered they had some issues.  I knew a number of guys who ran 4.56s and 4.88s in Z28s without a problem though.

Fourth, this is some fantastic advice: "Wayne Nelson will tell you that there’s no secret to making a 428 Cobra Jet run. Keep it stock, and make sure everything—carb, ignition advance, tire pressure—is set up right and tuned for your track conditions and prevailing weather, then let the engine do its thing."  That was exactly my experience.  I saw a lot of guys try modifying them, and go slower with every change.

Lastly, congratulations 428 CJ hardtops!!!  That is absolutely flying in pure stock trim (although the definition of pure stock has gotten a bit more liberal over the years).

Offline rockhouse66

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2016, 08:57:03 pm »
Congratulations Steve!  #1!
Jim

'69 Grande CJ

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2016, 08:58:56 pm »
The pic with the front end high kinda looks like the left front tire is off the ground a bit .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline jetset

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2016, 11:22:01 pm »
Steve:

Big thumbs up for fighting the good fight, making us all proud ! Great to see somebody out there letting that CJ eat. Good luck on picking up that first 11 second timeslip with the 68, I'm sure it won't be long now.
968 1/2 Mustang CJ Fastback
4-speed   3:50    Yellow

Offline Vcode

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2016, 06:30:22 am »
Good article - thanks for posting it.
'69 Mach 1 SCJ

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2016, 11:29:09 am »
Does anyone know the details of the tech inspection?

Looking at the ET times, it's doubtful a cylinder pressure test or stroke measurement is included.

Great cars!

Offline 428 CJ hardtops

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2016, 12:07:08 pm »
http://www.psmcdr.com/2.html
They often do some checks on the really fast cars .I fully expect to be looked at this year .They do a p@g  check ,compression ,valve spring pressure , valve lift ,stall speed check ,and a visual look at other things .
had many 428 CJ and SCJ cars over the last 30 years.I currently own a 68 1/2 coupe and a 69 R code SCJ Coupe and a 70 R code SCJ Cougar Eliminator .I am looking for a 70 428 coupe if anybody knows of one for sale.

Offline 70cj428

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 12:38:56 pm »
Quote
First, for anyone thinking that a 428CJ/4 speed/4.30 car had to be quicker than 14.57, that really wasn't the case.  The 4.30 sticks are really hard to launch on street tires, and they run out of revs a few hundred feet before the finish.

WOW....    Talk about old memories....  I was with Mike at that race and  between me and him , we probably put 20-25 passes on the car. The car actually had brand new Radial TA's initially and the car wouldn't hook no matter what, running mid-low 15's and spinning all over the place. Finally, another racer (Tom Artis, #3 in the same article) offered to loan us the tires and wheels off the back of his car and Mike got the car into the 14's .... ( so much for not mixing radials and non radial tires.....) But they do run out of wind just past the 1000' mark, and I'm sure with some tuning and tweaking the car would have run a lot better.

Mike actually has another CJ powered car that he races in F.A.S.T, It's a pretty mild build for a F.A.S.T car, and still won't hook, but runs high 11's at 120/121 MPH in the quarter thru exhaust manifolds ....

 The car's and original 4:30 4sp SCJ manual steering car and is still all original. It had one old repaint (should be red), but under the hood is still all stock ( I think the rev limiter was disconnected for the race...) All we did was dust it off and check the timing. It has none of the "pure stock" tricks..... It's still has all it's dirt and sound deadener underneath and I' don't think the interiors ever been out of the car.   The car is a trooper, it will sit for a year, and with a jump, starts right up and you can drive it anywhere. I give Mike a lot of credit for racing an original, valuable car. The car was owned by another forum member here before mike ended up with it in the late 1980's or early 1990's.

Just thought I'd chime in...

John
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 12:44:11 pm by 70cj428 »
70 "R" code Mach1, Wimbleton White / Vermillion, Auto, AC,
70 "Q" code Mach1, Grabber Green / White, Auto,AC
70 "M" code Mach1, Med. Gold / Ginger, Auto, AC
68 "S" code GT Fastback, Wimbleton White / Black deluxe int.,4 speed, AC, (getting a 427SO..)

Offline mickey

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 09:29:23 pm »
Congrats Steve and Wayne on those times. I am proud to say i was out there with you guys for those runs!

Offline geraldt52

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2016, 01:19:50 pm »
...Finally, another racer (Tom Artis, #3 in the same article) offered to loan us the tires and wheels off the back of his car and Mike got the car into the 14's ....All we did was dust it off and check the timing. It has none of the "pure stock" tricks..... It's still has all it's dirt and sound deadener underneath and I' don't think the interiors ever been out of the car.   The car is a trooper, it will sit for a year, and with a jump, starts right up and you can drive it anywhere.

Well in that context 14.57 isn't bad.  Cars that have been mostly sitting for years don't usually fare all that well anyway, and what you're talking about was really the Pure Stock definition from back in the day.  No doubt with a little tweaking it could have gotten down around 14 flat, which back in the day would have been considered pretty decent for a 4.30 4 speed.

Much better track conditions, finely blueprinted engines and transmissions, engineered 2-1/2" exhaust systems, and the like don't give a direct comparison from a Pure Stock run in 1968 compared to a Pure Stock run in 2016.  Most guys ran Pure Stock back in the day just because they hadn't yet bought headers and slicks, or were trying not to blow their new car warranty...no comparision to the incredible effort guys have put into Pure Stock today.

Offline 70cj428

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 08:02:20 pm »
Quote
Well in that context 14.57 isn't bad.  Cars that have been mostly sitting for years don't usually fare all that well anyway, and what you're talking about was really the Pure Stock definition from back in the day.  No doubt with a little tweaking it could have gotten down around 14 flat, which back in the day would have been considered pretty decent for a 4.30 4 speed.

Even with the Bias Plys, there was a thin line that day between blowing the tires away and a 15 second pass, I'm sure with just stickier tires there was a lot more in the car. I can assure you that mikes car was absolutely stock, It may even have the original exhaust system on it. I don't even think we took the spare out of the trunk. An automatic and less gear alone would help a lot.

Back then they didn't check a whole lot, I remember a "Pure Stock" Torino with a 351C that sounded like it had a Gapp and Roush Pro Stock motor in it, and a little bird told me that one of the faster Fords back then had a little more stroke than the current Tech people would be happy with......  ;)

John
70 "R" code Mach1, Wimbleton White / Vermillion, Auto, AC,
70 "Q" code Mach1, Grabber Green / White, Auto,AC
70 "M" code Mach1, Med. Gold / Ginger, Auto, AC
68 "S" code GT Fastback, Wimbleton White / Black deluxe int.,4 speed, AC, (getting a 427SO..)

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2016, 11:18:32 am »
The technical rules are unenforceable as a practical matter.  A stock Mustang that does 110 MPH trap time has been tweaked a bit under the hood. However the rules say, unless I misread it, that 1.5 compression ratio over stock is allowed which is 12 to 1, hardly stock. 

A 3600 pound car that does 110 trap speed with stock tires has to pushing 600 horsepower, but that's a guess on my part.

If I was running the show any car that does over 100 MPH trap would automatically be in the reverse lottery. The guys in this group would draw straws after the race and the winner, which is the loser, would consent to a engine teardown on the spot. What's interesting to me is how a cheater would be viewed by his fellow racers. I don't think he would lose any friends or respect, in fact he may gain respect once his cheating secrets are exposed. There could be a fine of a 1000 dollars and he would get a trophy called the "Smokey" award.

But to catch a racer using nitro or other home brew fuel would be hard to do.   

Offline crossboss

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2016, 01:33:09 pm »
Cheating in racing…awe, come on. lol  Everyone cheats, its who gets caught. When I was racing at the Muscle Car Nationals the rules were strict and most cars were essentially 'stock' Yes, there were 'ringers' especially one in my class--he was 1 second quicker than me. He fouled, and was out. Nowadays the 'Pure Stock' class is hardly stock by any means. The rules are way too liberal. Pure Stock should, in my view be just that, 'pure stock' IF you have the need to go faster, race in the 'F.A.S.T.' class. Just me...
<My old C.J. heap  aka  S-B Racing!
Current lifelong project: 1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, Powered by a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase headed, Autolite 1425 cfm 'B' Inline carb, 6 speed, 4 wheel discs, ala Trans-Am style--Whew!

Offline geraldt52

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Re: 10 Fastest Pure Stock Mustangs
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2016, 05:54:06 pm »
...A 3600 pound car that does 110 trap speed with stock tires has to pushing 600 horsepower, but that's a guess on my part... 

Not close.

http://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_horsepower_trap_speed/horsepower_trap_speed.php

The simple formulas that estimate horsepower from trap speed are pretty good...the ones that estimate horsepower from ET are pretty bad...too many variables affect ET for a simple formula to cover.

From the link:  horsepower = weight (velocity/234)3  hp = 3600 (110/234)3  hp = 373...about what you'd expect of a very well sorted stock CJ.  As a confirmation of the formula, my old 68-1/2 in "vintage" Pure Stock trim, never having the heads off, was nearly always around 105-106 mph, with a best of 109 mph.

As a further confirmation of the formula, a new LS 7 Z28 Camaro weighs a bit over 3800 lbs, has an SAE certified 505 hp and runs somewhere just shy of 120 mph in the 1/4 mile.  By the formula:  hp = 3800 (120/234)3  hp = 513.   Pretty darn close...increase the weight just a tick and decrease the speed just a tick and you'd be right at 505 hp.