Author Topic: High Octane Race Fuel  (Read 535 times)

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Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2018, 02:18:07 pm »
Smithsonian.

Kat Eschner's article.  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-invented-180961368/

Kat Eschner of Smithsonian Magazine relied and based her article on expert Deborah Blum from Wired magazine.

Here is the last sentence Kat quoting Blum who Kat Eschner incorrectly called Drum and identified the fuel as unleaded.

"Much of that lead is still around in environments that were contaminated by gasoline fumes during the era of unleaded. It’s a problem that can’t be left for another generation" Drum writes.


Ms. Blum where is the lead?  I want to know so that if my family lives there we can move to save my kids!  Ms. Blum please tell me, where is it?  Run a soil sample please Ms. Blum!  Take a soil sample at a shuttered battery factory I don't care, show me some evidence please Ms. Blum!  Can't be left for another generation, What! Why! Are we going to die? Oh dear God!  Ms. Blum please save my family! I've got 5 little kids, please help us! Where is it! sob sob sob...

The respected medical journal  Lancet reported on a press release dated July 1 1972 that four workers died from lead exposure from cleaning a tank which contained leaded fuel.  Yes that's true that 4 workers died, it happened in 1923 when they started to manufacture TEL at a factory before safety provisions we're in place, masks, gloves, ventilation ect.

 These workers we're not cleaning a tank which contained leaded fuel, they we're dealing with the pure stuff. That's a bold faced lie reporting that the men we're cleaning a tank that contained leaded fuel.  I believe that it was a spill.  Another worker later died which made 5, but Lancet chose to report on the first 4 deaths which made it sound like it just happened.  The fake news always use the 1923 incident as proof that leaded fuel is deadly.

No other deaths that I'm aware of have ever occurred either at the TEL company, a refinery, or anywhere else relating to TEL leaded fuel.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673672912767/fulltext

One more.  Here is the EPA reporting that leaded gasoline is a danger to pubic health in 1985.

https://archive.epa.gov/epa/aboutepa/lead-poisoning-historical-perspective.html

The EPA, in the absence of scientific fact that leaded fuel is a public health hazard, decided to prove that leaded fuel is a health hazard by quoting a Roman Hermit in the attached EPA press release. 

Description of lead poisoning by an anonymous Roman hermit, translated by Humelbergius Secundus in 1829

 
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 03:17:14 pm by 69cobrajetrugae2 »

Offline redscj

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2018, 03:15:18 pm »
     Ken, I think that the main problem with lead, hexavalent chrome & at least cadmium is that the body will absorb them a lot faster that it will pass them. It's mainly an accumulative problem. As I mentioned the increasing life spans. A person has many more years for damage to occur from things that it doesn't know how to handle. Because the things either are man made or exist in the world in a lot smaller concentrations. It's interesting to note that there is a material data safety sheet (MDS) for water. Yes, too much water can lead to death.
     I really hesitate to debate any global warming fears. Not 200 miles from my house is a nice deposit of petrified palm trees. Less than 100 mile in the opposite direction is petrified coral. Both are at elevation of around 5,000 feet. Utah has some coal seams over 10 feet thick. These things didn't happen with our current climate. Many humans think that the world has always been as it is today. Geology shows a different world.
Grant
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Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2018, 03:48:56 pm »
If one gallon of leaded fuel is burned then the exhaust gas contains 2 to 4 grams of lead.  My engine burns at gallon at idle in a few minutes so let me try my best to get the lead into my blood stream.

 Two flexible tubes off both exhaust tips are plumbed into the top of a Plexiglas box nearest my head.  The bottom of the box has one large pipe which is attached to a very large container which will capture all of the exhaust gas so that the engine won't quit before one gallon of leaded fuel is consumed and no exhaust will enter the free atmosphere.  A fan will circulate the exhaust fumes from the large container to the Plexiglas box after the gallon of leaded gasoline is consumed.  I'll breathe deeply during this scientific exercise until all the exhaust gas have made at least 12 trips through my lungs.  I'll report my blood lead levels before and after the experiment.  Here we go.

I am Ken's friend and I'm sorry to report that he passed away today, we found him unresponsive in a Plexiglas box.

I am Ken's friend again and the government autopsy results indicated that he died from exposure from leaded gasoline.

That is exactly how the EPA determined that leaded fuel is deadly when they killed a number of small animals in a box.  As soon as the exhaust vapor leaves the tailpipe the Methyl bromide bonded with a tiny amount of lead zooms to the stratosphere and months or years later they end up in the ocean. Explain to me how the tiny amount of lead is going to enter a person's bloodstream?

High compression and the production of oxides of nitrogen are not mutually exclusive which was proven by the V12 Jaguar engine with the fireball heads.  Engineer Michel May tweaked the combustion chamber to increase turbulence and those high efficiency engines had between 10.5 to 12.5 compression ratio and still passed US and California NOX limits.   A clean emmission 15 to 1 gasoline engine with huge power and approaching diesel efficiency could be developed if leaded fuel made a resurgence if the brainwash job wasn't so intrenched in public opinion.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 04:34:24 pm by 69cobrajetrugae2 »

Offline Rory McNeil

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2018, 08:41:11 pm »
I am not a scientist, global earth or otherwise, but here in Canada, we have had several attempts of the Federal Government to ban leaded racing gasoline from santioned racing events in the past 15 or 20 years. Several years ago, Enviroment Canada gave leaded race gas exemptions, after performing tests at my local dragstrip (Mission Raceway in Britsh Columbia) for amount of lead in the atmospere inside and immediatly outside the tracks property, which the gov`t scientists found to be negligable. I have been buying VP C12 leaded racing fuel by the 54 gallon barrel for decades now, and I don`t appear to have any extra arms growing out of my head yet, and I can still count to 10, tie my own shoelaces, and recite the alphabet!
427 FE powered Ford Fairmont drag car. ET:9.97@132mph
Have owned 5 "R" code Mustangs & Fairlanes over the past 25+ years.
Currently building a 1959 Ford 2 door sedan with a 428 CJ and Toploader 4 speed.

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2018, 01:53:00 am »
Nice find Rory!

The principal inventor behind TEL was Charles Kettering and by all accounts was good person in fact he and his wife Virginia founded the  Sloan Kettering Institute.  A public outcry ensued after 5 workers died at his fledging TEL factory.  Charles knew that it was a safe gasoline additive and performed a study of the effect of TEL on the health and welfare of people which proved it.  As a eventual holder of 186 patents it's unlikely that he would lie about the dangers of TEL and place profits over people.

The evolution of TEL and octane rating was a 40 year affair, in fact the octane rating limited the compression ratio that engine designers could use.  It was only 76 in the forties according to a report and peaked to 100 in the early sixties which coincided with the muscle car era.  The problem was that the lead by itself did not raise the auto ignition point, the magic was when the lead bonded with the scavengers.  The lead bonded with the scavengers which searched out to quell any cool flame that would interrupt a nice steady burn and expansion of the gasoline and the scavengers would take the lead with them out the exhaust valve.  If the lead was allowed to accumulate in the combustion chamber engine damage would quickly result.   The formula for TEL was unchanged from the start, it was the scavengers mixed to an exact ratio that would grab all the lead that was the constant challenge in the evolution of gasoline .

 A section of the study from Article B. is in bold.  What's noteworthy is that there are contradictions from one sentence to the next which is very confusing to myself and perhaps others of average intelligence lacking advanced scientific training.

 The research paper concluded that 90% of anthropogenic lead emissions, or man made lead emissions in the mid eighties was due to combustion of leaded gasoline.  However the study reported that  4,000 facilities released almost 22 million pounds of lead and 482 million pounds of lead compounds to the environment in 2007 (TRI 2009). Concentrations of lead in the air in the United States declined by 97% between 1976 and 1995 and by 57% between 1993 and 2002 (ATSDR 1999, EPA 2003). 

I'm just a guy asking questions.

1.  In the mid eighties, since leaded fuel was responsible for 90%, did all other sources of lead and lead compounds released by industry account for the other 10 percent?

2.  In 2007, 4000 factories released 22 million pounds of lead and 482 million pounds lead compounds into the environment.  No figure was provided in the study of the lead released 20 years earlier.  How does lead produced and released into the environment by factories effect human health and welfare?  Where does it go?  Is it particulate or vapor?

3.  Finally, the lead produced by burning leaded gasoline takes the chemical forms of lead bromochloride and inorganic lead halides neither of which is "no longer present in significant quantities" in the atmosphere as quoted by your study.  Why is leaded fuel still viewed as a major contributor of lead exposure when it can't be found?  The lead oxides bonded with Methyl Bromide and soared to the stratosphere then landed in the ocean to be consumed by bacteria.  Where is any credible evidence to the contrary?  A half a billion pounds of lead is released every year into the environment from factories according to your report.  Human ingestion and absorption of lead is known to be caused by leaded pipes and paint used in homes and lead used water municipalities, Flint Michigan is one example.  In the face of these known facts, leaded fuel is still branded as a major contributor to lead exposure harming the health and welfare of Americans decades later.

The use of 50/50 lead/tin solder which was used to upgrade galvanized iron pipe to copper pipe in water systems was banned years after leaded fuel.  Lead in plumbing fixtures was banned in only the last few years.  Today there are numerous sources of lead and human lead exposure routes which are not in the process of being mitigated.  However the use of leaded fuel decades ago is still the warrior cry of the uninformed and brainwashed masses of the populous as they suck down tap water infused with lead from the water municipality pipes to the pipes in their homes to the faucet which was replaced in 2010.

A.  US Health and Human Services.  https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/pubhealth/roc/index-1.html

B.  An article with regards to lead. https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/content/profiles/lead.pdf


In the mid 1980s, combustion of leaded gasoline contributed about 90% of all anthropogenic lead emissions, but the percentage decreased sharply through the late 1990s as a result of the phase-out of leaded gasoline (ATSDR 1999, EPA 2003). Over 90% of the lead released from the combustion of leaded gasoline was in the form of inorganic lead halides (e.g., lead bromochloride), while less than 10% was in the form of organic lead alkyls (e.g., tetraethyl lead). Tetraalkyl lead compounds once accounted for 5% to 10% of the total particulate lead present in the atmosphere but are no longer present in significant quantities. Industrial processes, particularly lead smelters, are now the primary source of lead emissions and accounted for more than 78% of emissions in 2001 (EPA 2003).

According to EPA’s Toxics Release Inventory, over 4,000 facilities released almost 22 million pounds of lead and 482 million pounds of lead compounds to the environment in 2007 (TRI 2009). Concentrations of lead in the air in the United States declined by 97% between 1976 and 1995 and by 57% between 1993 and 2002 (ATSDR 1999, EPA 2003). Ambient concentrations are highly variable but may exceed 10 μg/m3 near industrial sources such as smelters (ATSDR 1999). A 1991 survey of lead levels in U.S. urban air found a maximum quarterly mean concentration of approximately 0.08 μg/m3. Lead concentrations typically are lower in rural areas. In 1995, the estimated U.S. mean air lead concentration was 0.04 μg/m3 (EPA 1996). The estimated daily average intake of lead by inhalation in 1991 was 2 μg for an adult living in a U.S. urban setting, significantly lower than estimates from the early 1980s (ATSDR 1999).
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 04:32:17 am by 69cobrajetrugae2 »

Offline Rory McNeil

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2018, 08:13:44 pm »
I always found it odd the the government banned leaded gasoline for cars and trucks, but still allowed it to be used in aircraft, farm equipment, and boats, all of which are often used in farming and food production. So its OK to eat it, but not breathe it, I suppose.
427 FE powered Ford Fairmont drag car. ET:9.97@132mph
Have owned 5 "R" code Mustangs & Fairlanes over the past 25+ years.
Currently building a 1959 Ford 2 door sedan with a 428 CJ and Toploader 4 speed.

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2018, 11:48:46 pm »
We never did breathe it or workers exposed to it daily for a 30 or 40 year career would resemble the Tim Man from the Wizard of Oz.  Exposure to burned unleaded fuel might actually be dangerous since no study has been done that I'm aware of.  Lead is everywhere in fact in the last few years children's toys made in china we're found to contain lead and there was a burp of a news story which didn't gain traction  TV ratings wise and that was it.  I'm sure that they still contain lead.  I was surprised at how many products contain lead far too many to list here.

Micrograms per deciliter is how lead in the blood is measured.  If a large table has one gram of lead spread exploded in a million parts and in the center of the table is a beaker with 3.3 ounces of human blood.

 Take 10 of those lead particles and drop them in the beaker and that's the limit that a child should have lead wise.  Over that amount requires medical intervention. Not much lead and besides, a little lead might have some benefits that we don't know about.

Offline ac427

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2018, 06:22:40 am »
Who doesn’t appreciate some lead in their pencil....Even that’s now some type of carbon/graphite. Doh

Offline redscj

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2018, 08:17:08 am »
Who doesn’t appreciate some lead in their pencil....Even that’s now some type of carbon/graphite. Doh
     Industry made that switch many years ago. I have no idea if it was because of the lead issues. I suspect that it was just a penny issue. Save a penny times the millions of pencils made yearly. Money drives a lot of decisions.
Grant
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Offline geraldt52

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2018, 12:07:01 pm »
I always found it odd the the government banned leaded gasoline for cars and trucks, but still allowed it to be used in aircraft, farm equipment, and boats, all of which are often used in farming and food production. So its OK to eat it, but not breathe it, I suppose.

It's all about what activity is more responsible for the total amounts of lead that we're exposed to.  If you look at an aerial shot of the 5 freeway in L.A., at least 20 hours a day, and compare it to an aerial shot of a Nebraska corn field for 20 hours a day, it's easy to see which one might be worse.  It was also considered how difficult it would be to institute a changeover to unleaded gasoline within a given sector.

Yes, we're still exposed to lead, but in increasingly fewer ways as the noose gets tightened.  You can also still buy/use R12 Freon.  Asbestos is also still used in critical applications.  It isn't necessary to have zero exposure to these things, just to limit the total number of ways that we're exposed.  If you smoke a cigar now and again I doubt you'll pay for it, but if you smoke a pack of cigarettes every day you probably will.

Offline 161854

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2018, 01:02:08 pm »
   You haven't even touched on the ethanol added to fuel which increases the ability of ANY airborn "toxin" to be absorbed into the skin. "It's OK and it's green 'cuz it comes from corn!"
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Offline geraldt52

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2018, 03:12:23 pm »
   You haven't even touched on the ethanol added to fuel which increases the ability of ANY airborn "toxin" to be absorbed into the skin. "It's OK and it's green 'cuz it comes from corn!"

I think that the environmental jury's still out on ethanol blends, in particular how much of an environmental issue E10 itself is.  On the one hand the ethanol is better than the MTBE that it replaced, on the other hand the idea of growing corn to make it, with all the environmental issues related to that, seems on its face to be a poor use of resources at the very least.  Since we're depending on oxygenated fuels to reduce air pollution, we're probably going to have to live with E10 until someone figures out something better.

Of course all of these problems would be significantly smaller if humans weren't out of control overpopulating the planet, but no one mentions that.  We now add about one million people to the planet every four days...a bit more than the population of the city of San Francisco, every four days...continuously.  We are doubling the population of the planet every 50 years...not really a problem when there were a few million of us, a big problem now that there are 7 billion of us.  It is completely unsustainable.  We are doomed by the mathematics of compound growth if we don't stop.  Lead in some of our gasoline will prove to be the least of our problems...

Offline redscj

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2018, 03:25:40 pm »
     As Gerald points out. I've made the same argument to a few enviromental types. The real problem, at least in my eyes. Is we're way too good at reproducing. ::)
Grant
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Offline 161854

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Re: High Octane Race Fuel
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2018, 05:31:57 pm »
  Long after I'm gone !
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
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'78 F350 Oleynik racecar hauler