Author Topic: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....  (Read 3784 times)

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Offline tbolt2

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2019, 10:05:01 am »
I read through Roger's 11 pg (9 typed/2 written) Investigation Report.  Based on what I recall and from other documents I've seen. 
On the Vehicle Number, i.e. S-713-62
V = Mustang
S = Cougar
K = Comet
O = Fairlane ?
The first digit is the model year, 6 = 1966, 7 = 1967
The second and third digit is the body style, 13=Hardtop, 15=Convertible, 38=Fastback
The last digit(s) are to identify the specific vehicle

On pgs 10 and 11, hand written sheets.
On pg 10, this is a ... note the "Sigma" symbol (Summation), must of been written by an engineer/mathematician.  lol

O-938-1  = Fairlane?, 1969 Fastback, veh #1

8V 442 = 8 venturi (dual quad carbs), assume 442 is a 427 cyl block with a 428 crank,  I know, 447 or 448, minor math error/rounding, or perhaps it's just a way to identify that particular package. 

SK-39789 282/296 Analytical Design hydraulic tappet camshaft = C8AX-6250-C

The two SK cyl heads tested, 40860 and 43013.  Have unique int/exh valve diameters.  Which design ?

In Test #5, note 6V T.P. Intake.

tbc ...

Regards,
Dennis
   



 


 
 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 12:42:02 pm by tbolt2 »
Regards,
Dennis

Offline 69cobrajetrugae2

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2019, 10:21:30 am »
 Perhaps there we're 2 versions of a 448.

 442 equals two 4bb carbs.

 448 equals one 4bb carb.

 

Offline 161854

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2019, 11:16:53 am »
There were some XE tri power intakes made for Boss 302, 351 Cleveland, 351 Windsor, Boss 429 and other applications. A guy had all of them at Carlisle for sale maybe 15 years ago. I think it might have been Jay Cushman? Amazing how many dead end ideas Ford tried back then.



Randy you mention the 351 tri power which I'd never heard of but my dad was talking about a 351 Boss he did for Bob Jr that he got a tri power intake from Bill Barr. He then used a 400 block? He says the intake was 1 of 4. It ended up in a Pantera after they had moved to Lincoln Mercury. I think he said they altered 2V Corvette holley carbs for the tri power intake. Let me know if you want me to ask him anything else about that 351 intake.

    In all of my ( 50) years of "investigation" I have never seen the Boss 302 tri power ( though I did see the wood casting patterns at Holman Moody) and never seen ANY paper , picture , notation or anything on a 351W tripower. I have seen and owned many of the rarest experimental Ford parts made. NONE of my friends ( Jay , Gus , Roy , Sean, and others) that are equally obsessed with this stuff  have heard of one OR a dual quad. "From Ford" the only two offerings were the Shelby single and ( the incorrectly described as Windsor) Weber intake. Ford did not consider it to be a "performance engine" ( like the 351GT ) was so nothing was developed performance wise by them.
      I have thousands of SK numbers that don't show any 351 development and of the hundreds of XE numbers with only one that pertains to a 351W cylinder head modification. I would like more if it's out there.
   Randy
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
 66 GT350 Hertz SFM 6S 477 white/ blue side stripes 1  of 18
3 magazine covers- Car Craft July '77,  Modified Mustangs Feb '11 , and June '14 Mustang Monthly
'78 F350 Oleynik racecar hauler

Offline Dggilbert

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2019, 12:19:25 pm »
I believe the tripower my father was talking about was a Boss 351. I believe i saw a couple of threads here or on the FE forum where someone was at an auction with a tripower 351 intake, I think you had a couple of post on the thread Randy. Someone out forth the # at 11 that were made and that maybe Jay Cushman still had some, at that time. Ill go back and check. That would all be Cleveland not Windsor, correct?

Offline Dggilbert

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2019, 12:30:40 pm »
Correction, Boss 302 registry. Jay claimed there were 2 types and show picks of one or both. Just do a search for tri power and it will come up. You said it was 366 Nascar funded Randy and had a Chrysler carbon setup, which is what my dad had told me.

Offline 161854

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #65 on: June 03, 2019, 03:11:20 pm »
   I have seen three distinct types of 351C tri power intakes. More appropriately "three revisions" of the intake. The notes in my SK book refer to the carburetors  as "modified by H Droste" and Nascar 366 is noted as the "funding program". It is interesting to note that the 440 six pack Chrysler ( that the carbs were modified from ) that wasn't introduced at the time the carbs were modified!
    Back to CJ topic now.
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
 66 GT350 Hertz SFM 6S 477 white/ blue side stripes 1  of 18
3 magazine covers- Car Craft July '77,  Modified Mustangs Feb '11 , and June '14 Mustang Monthly
'78 F350 Oleynik racecar hauler

Offline 1968

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #66 on: June 03, 2019, 05:05:28 pm »
I read through Roger's 11 pg (9 typed/2 written) Investigation Report.  Based on what I recall and from other documents I've seen. 
On the Vehicle Number, i.e. S-713-62
V = Mustang
S = Cougar
K = Comet
O = Fairlane ?
The first digit is the model year, 6 = 1966, 7 = 1967
The second and third digit is the body style, 13=Hardtop, 15=Convertible, 38=Fastback
The last digit(s) are to identify the specific vehicle

On pgs 10 and 11, hand written sheets.
On pg 10, this is a ... note the "Sigma" symbol (Summation), must of been written by an engineer/mathematician.  lol

O-938-1  = Fairlane?, 1969 Fastback, veh #1

8V 442 = 8 venturi (dual quad carbs), assume 442 is a 427 cyl block with a 428 crank,  I know, 447 or 448, minor math error/rounding, or perhaps it's just a way to identify that particular package. 

SK-39789 282/296 Analytical Design hydraulic tappet camshaft = C8AX-6250-C

The two SK cyl heads tested, 40860 and 43013.  Have unique int/exh valve diameters.  Which design ?

In Test #5, note 6V T.P. Intake.

tbc ...

Regards,
Dennis
 

Interesting.  But there is no reference to the "448 Mustang" that was mentioned in Randy's initial post.  It seems that was considered for the 1969 model year, so it must have been in a '68 Mustang body?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 05:20:49 pm by 1968 »

Offline 161854

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2019, 10:19:21 am »
   Dennis ,
      The tags on the two  '67 427 Mustangs ( actual S code cars) were    301-D-088 for the 4spd and 301-D-089 for the Auto. This may mean different departments had different numbering systems. You would know better.
   Randy
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
 66 GT350 Hertz SFM 6S 477 white/ blue side stripes 1  of 18
3 magazine covers- Car Craft July '77,  Modified Mustangs Feb '11 , and June '14 Mustang Monthly
'78 F350 Oleynik racecar hauler

Offline tbolt2

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2019, 11:09:54 am »
Brass Tag numbers and Vehicle Numbers are two different entities.

From what I recall, BT numbers are an accounting thing and involve assets that have a certain monetary value.  Line items fall into different categories, i.e. - Facility, Tooling, ... .  Depending on the line item determines where the money comes from, the rate of depreciation, certain items are taxed, others are not, and so forth.  At times I had to write projects and this information was contained in a binder we received when attending training on project writing.

The two BT's you mention also have normal VIN's, 7F02S114--- and 128--- .  Those vehicles in Roger's document likely were not built at a production assembly plant and therefore do not have a normal production VIN.

Regards,
Dennis 



Regards,
Dennis

Offline 161854

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2019, 01:49:00 pm »
    Thanks Dennis , I thought I was on the right track and you verified that.
        Always appreciated ,
           Randy
68 1/2 CJ FB San Jose white/blue "C" stripe Foulger Ford
 66 GT350 Hertz SFM 6S 477 white/ blue side stripes 1  of 18
3 magazine covers- Car Craft July '77,  Modified Mustangs Feb '11 , and June '14 Mustang Monthly
'78 F350 Oleynik racecar hauler

Offline Dggilbert

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2019, 07:35:10 am »
Just a shot in the dark. Any chance the legacy of the Snider Jewel became the 410 or vice Versa?  Maybe the Snider Jewel was a stroker, 390 with 428 crank or 410 Mercury? Did the 410 come out in 66 or 67? Don't know the actual uptick in Hp, but its listed at 50hp increase from what I found.

Offline Jiffy

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2019, 09:39:48 am »
There were two FE 6V intake designs weren’t there?
Thunderbird and Galaxie? IIRC one was flatter than the other?
Could T.P. mean Thunderbird Product/Platform?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 07:37:37 pm by Jiffy »

Offline Dggilbert

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2019, 09:07:34 am »
Found an earlier reference the the 428CJ in the Highway- Drag  performance kits document under production documents that Roger was kind enough to download. Its dated Nov 6 1967.  Any XE #'s relating to the N head? Looks like that was late as they were selling J heads and I've seen that the 135 cars were built with J heads. I'll attach the document.

Offline 1968

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Re: Found some interesting "pre Cobra Jet " information....
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2019, 10:29:17 pm »
I read through Roger's 11 pg (9 typed/2 written) Investigation Report.  Based on what I recall and from other documents I've seen. 
On the Vehicle Number, i.e. S-713-62
V = Mustang
S = Cougar
K = Comet
O = Fairlane ?
The first digit is the model year, 6 = 1966, 7 = 1967
The second and third digit is the body style, 13=Hardtop, 15=Convertible, 38=Fastback
The last digit(s) are to identify the specific vehicle

On pgs 10 and 11, hand written sheets.
On pg 10, this is a ... note the "Sigma" symbol (Summation), must of been written by an engineer/mathematician.  lol

O-938-1  = Fairlane?, 1969 Fastback, veh #1

8V 442 = 8 venturi (dual quad carbs), assume 442 is a 427 cyl block with a 428 crank,  I know, 447 or 448, minor math error/rounding, or perhaps it's just a way to identify that particular package.

SK-39789 282/296 Analytical Design hydraulic tappet camshaft = C8AX-6250-C

The two SK cyl heads tested, 40860 and 43013.  Have unique int/exh valve diameters.  Which design ?

In Test #5, note 6V T.P. Intake.

tbc ...

Regards,
Dennis
 

Maybe the "442" was a reference to the horsepower rating for that setup.  448 ci, 8V, that seems about right.