Author Topic: Restoring correct  (Read 6912 times)

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Offline cjjeff

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2007, 10:57:55 am »
Thanks very much to Jeff and Joe for your comments. This gives us great information for areas to look at on our own cars first and foremost. I know that when I start to clean/disassemble, I will be a lot more careful and take more detailed pics than I would have otherwise! If only my car was preserved a little better..some of Jeff's pics are great!! Do you guys ever make it to the Mid-America Tulsa show??
Previous owner of:
"Black Magic" 1970 R code Sportsroof
"Black Magic II" 1990 Mustang 5.0 LX Coupe
Currently own:
1967 Mustang GT fastback A code 4 speed

Offline Joe Sikora

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2007, 12:18:31 pm »
You're welcome cjjeff, glad to help :)
I live in Virignia and tend to stick pretty close to home.  Have fun with your car!

Offline caspian65

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2007, 12:50:00 pm »
I'd like to add a note to clarify the skid mounting points on the undercarriage.  It was noted that these areas would be "bare steel", which is sort of true.  Many of the thick metal parts like the frame rails and areas where the skids attached were actually galvanized metal.  Therefore, what you should see is actually a galvanized surface once the skids came off and exposed the unpainted areas.  This is something that is rarely duplicated correctly when a Mustangs is restored.

Offline 0F05R118788

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2007, 03:10:46 pm »
Congrats to Joe S. and Jeff S. for the excellent undercarriage detailing information. At a minimum, this thread should be archived/sticky, and at maximum, you two should collaborate on a book!

I get asked this kind of stuff all the time and have a much more limited perspective (Dearborn, early 70). As you both point out, the differences from car to car and plant to plant are significant. It would help a whole lot of people that are restoring cars too rusty or too messed up by previous owners if there was ready access to this kind of information.

Good work!

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2007, 06:16:37 pm »
Quote from: "Joe Sikora"
Thank you for your comments and pictures, Jeff.  Sorry for the confusion, as my post is an overview of the characteristics of the typical 1967-70 Mustang undercarriage, my references to early/late cars pertains to 67/68 vs 69/70 model years.  I have worked on so many of each since the 70's, my memory kind of runs together :)  .


No problem Joe.. As I run into that problem (models and years running together) with all the reference questions I get daily.  Found it often works best for me (some people are waiting 6 months for a set of information) if I do a report and let it sit for review for a couple of days or a week to let it age. ;)

Definitely find that there is a "feel" to an original and a properly restored car as you mentioned. Unfortunately those that do not use the internet (forums like this) or don't know who/where to ask are limited to magazine articles (often with no reference to when or where the car was built) or what they might have seen on another car. Few can compile the information and resources some of us have but all can gain from it - from those who wish to share. If used properly IMHO good forums like this one can be a great help and an equalizer (especially those in remote locations)

Quote
This thread is probably the most comprehensive coverage of the topic of Mustang undercarriage detailing written anywhere.


Unfortunately we only scrapped the surface and I would warn anyone viewing this that none of the information IMHO is specific enough for any owner to use as posted. Joe and I were both posting very general comments, Specific application of sound deadener, chalking, colors and such would be gathered after the specifics of your car were know


My exposure is a bit limited when it comes to NJ cars as I run across them, in unrestored condition, at about 15% of what I see of Dearborn and San Jose cars.

Luckily here in Calif allot of cars from NJ and Dearborn have migrated here with their owners through the years as have San Jose cars been taken eastward. The yards are dwindling but still by far better than in any (in general) other part of the world. Just ask a couple of the big names that were out three weeks ago plundering the yards over a week long trip they make every year or so ;)

Joe since your focused on NJ cars 69-70. Which of the two methods of 89 headlight black out were used (sprayed or brushed)  You mentioned all the rear valance screws were painted for 69-70 at NJ.  Long suspected this possibility but not enough cars yet to draw, on my part, that conclusion.


In closing ... good to hear from you Joe. Sure we'll run across each other later this year. Just have to take the time to meet up.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2007, 06:23:03 pm »
Quote from: "cjjeff"
Thanks very much to Jeff and Joe for your comments. This gives us great information for areas to look at on our own cars first and foremost. I know that when I start to clean/disassemble, I will be a lot more careful and take more detailed pics than I would have otherwise! If only my car was preserved a little better..some of Jeff's pics are great!!

Do you guys ever make it to the Mid-America Tulsa show??


Since we know have the benefit of digital picture storage it has changed allot of what I do (currently spend one or two days collecting pictures and information) and what we can share with one another.  And what better source (short of the specific car - and then you can't always trust what you find) that a car from the same time - same plant for these sort of details

As for Tulsa ... yes was there last years. Had a car that I had flown in to detail a couple of weeks prior, that was at the show as a shake out for the SAAC national show. Where it won a Gold in Div I. Owner was very proud after allot of work (shot the wheel wells three times before they were close to being right) Again another one of those - restoring a San Jose car with builders allot more familiar with NJ cars

Considering attending this year again but have not made my arrangements yet

Offline cjjeff

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2007, 08:20:26 pm »
Figures the only show in about 10 years that I miss, you are there! If you do show up, look for the 70 R Sportsroof Black Magic car, I hope to bring it. I have a buddy from the KC area that lives in Mesa, AZ that is going to try and come up. It is my favorite Ford show...
Previous owner of:
"Black Magic" 1970 R code Sportsroof
"Black Magic II" 1990 Mustang 5.0 LX Coupe
Currently own:
1967 Mustang GT fastback A code 4 speed

Offline Joe Sikora

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2007, 01:26:40 pm »
As Jeff mentions we have barely scratched the surface in this thread, and as the title of my article implies, “Undercarriage 101” is exactly that, an introduction to typical assembly line technique covering Mustangs from 1967-70 without plant-to-plant specifics.  The article has been published about a half dozen times since I released it back in 2004, but I’m an engine guy and leave a full discourse of this chassis stuff to the xperts  (I’ve already told you more than I know :)

Offline Armond

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2007, 02:05:25 am »
Awsome thread!!  Jeff my 69 R code coupe looks just like the dearborn car you cleaned.   On one coupe I parted out it had Gulfstream Aqua sprayed on one side of the inner fenders like a worker was screwing around. It was a Springtime yellow car.  Thanks for your imput Joe and Jeff.
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2007, 04:21:28 am »
Quote from: "Armond"
Awsome thread!!  Jeff my 69 R code coupe looks just like the dearborn car you cleaned.   On one coupe I parted out it had Gulfstream Aqua sprayed on one side of the inner fenders like a worker was screwing around. It was a Springtime yellow car.  


Yes the pictures shows well one of the "very little black and sound deadener examples" rather than the typical front wheel well applications we see from that plant. San Jose and NJ seemed to have less (for this year - this part of the car)  out of the expected applications.



As for your parted out coupe. Can you remember if the aqua on the passenger side battery box area??? And not elsewhere.

If so it might be part of an inspection or other mark I've found on about four Dearborn cars so far. For a while they did some of the marks in spray can rather than the crayon. We can only guess why but it was only for a period in that particular part of the plant.

If all over one side of all the panels you might have a screw up/ an ooops ;)

Offline Armond

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2007, 11:47:28 am »
From the looks of it I believed it was someone messing around because it was from the front at the radiator support going back to the rear inner fender, they had then blacked out most of it, but leaving some exposed. it was also on top of the inner fenders.   It was on the passenger side.
9F01R141359 Winter blue GT 4 speed!!!!
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http://www.dagostinirestorations.com/

Offline caspian65

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2007, 05:34:50 pm »
Quote from: "Armond"
Awsome thread!!  Jeff my 69 R code coupe looks just like the dearborn car you cleaned.   On one coupe I parted out it had Gulfstream Aqua sprayed on one side of the inner fenders like a worker was screwing around. It was a Springtime yellow car.  Thanks for your imput Joe and Jeff.


That was most likely caused by a painter cleaning the gun out.  I found vintage burgandy paint on the outer inner fender area of a light blue '65 Dearborn convertible.

Offline Joe Sikora

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2007, 07:17:30 pm »
It's fun to talk about all the variations but don't get too wrapped around the axle on this whole undercarriage thing.  There was a wide range of ink marks, paint blobs, stickers and decals found on original cars but they weren't all found on any single car.  It's easy to fall into the trap of trying to capture everything you read.  Reinterating what Jeff and I have mentioned above, it is very important to get a feel for what went on at the factory to recreate sixties assembly line technique.

The bottom line is that these cars are all more alike than they are different.  This stuff isn't rocket science although some folks would have you believe it is.  Once you have it narrowed down to the range of typical assembly line practice for a given plant, you can't do any better in a restoration, unless you know the specifics for an individual car.

Offline x-70option

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2007, 11:19:06 am »
Quote from: "caspian65"
I'd like to add a note to clarify the skid mounting points on the undercarriage.  It was noted that these areas would be "bare steel", which is sort of true.  Many of the thick metal parts like the frame rails and areas where the skids attached were actually galvanized metal.  Therefore, what you should see is actually a galvanized surface once the skids came off and exposed the unpainted areas.  This is something that is rarely duplicated correctly when a Mustangs is restored.




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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Restoring correct
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2007, 09:58:15 pm »
Yes Mark..and there were 8 of them and 4 of those had upper matching holes that were pare also.

Size of the bare area depended on which ones and what factory